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Aaron Schnatterly




Location: New Glarus, WI
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr, 2008 7:20 am    Post subject: 15th Century Girdle Purse         Reply with quote

Pockets were notably absent in medieval clothing. Instead, pouches, purses, bags, satchels, cases of all kinds were used, hung off of belts or shoulders. We see them constantly in period art. We very rarely see them accurately reproduced.

One type of purse that was very commonly worn by all classes of men was the girdle purse, which has two integral belt loops, and various shapes varying from kidney or ballock shaped, Cupid's bow, squared off, rounded, trapezoidal... Commonly, there is a ballock dagger or some form of utility/eating knife worn from the belt between the belt loops or tucked through them. Curiously, this style is only shown being worn by men - women, of course, had purses and pouches as well, but of different style.

I'm working on a high-end kit for a German mercenary man-at-arms, circa 1475. To add some practical, utilitarian, convenient carriage for personals, based off of extant art and some recovered fragments, here's my attempt at a recreation:

Front view:


Front pouch:


Rear pouch set, with main pouch and three pouchlets:


Back:


Profile shot:


Shown with a US Quarter for size reference:


Hand sewn with waxed linen thread, veg-tanned kip, mahogany dye, burnished and oiled.




This is my personal one, but I would entertain the opportunity to make another... Wink
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr, 2008 7:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another beautiful project! So, is this kit for yourself? Will you be making any of your armour (plate, mail or fabric)?

This is my main period of interest as well, and I love to see what people are making for late 15th kit.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Aaron Schnatterly




Location: New Glarus, WI
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr, 2008 7:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank, Sean!

Yes, the kit is for myself. General overview - high-goth gaunts (finished, Jiri Lucius, disgustingly sweet!), sallet (raised in one piece, work starting shortly), period arming clothes from Gwen, mail standard, voiders/sleeves, and skirt (riveted, just started), and a brigandine (which I will make). I *may* add a bevor as an exchange piece to the standard... and may add legs/cased greaves at some point. I'm debating the Munich or the Regent as my choice of weapons, and will make a good rondel as a secondary.

Soft kit will have a nice doublet, riding boots, and some elements like this pouch, a ballock... those type of accessories.

Should be uber-sweet. It will take a while to get it all together, but it is the kit I've wanted for decades.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr, 2008 8:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oof! That's big project, but I'm certainly sympathetic.

I don't plan to ever wear any 15th c. kit, but I'm wanting to make as much as I can for a nice display. Mainly, I just want to know how to make the stuff and do it once as a personal challenge Big Grin

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Ben van Koert




Location: Veenendaal, the Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 12 Dec, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lovely purse you've made Aaron!
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Aaron Schnatterly




Location: New Glarus, WI
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PostPosted: Fri 12 Dec, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, Ben!

If anyone is interested, I'm hoping to do some more of these this upcoming year - some more plain like this one, and some with pewter or silver fittings and/or tooled leather. We'll see how that all progresses. I'm in the process of carving the waxes for the fittings now for a couple of different versions.
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Ben van Koert




Location: Veenendaal, the Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 12 Dec, 2008 12:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As for that; I'm already the happy owner of a well executed purse, but I just wanted to compliment you on yours.
It look well researched and has the right construction. Maybe you could have made the slit in the front compartiment at the backside of it, like on the Dordrecht original, as the frontflap is a bit small to be fully functional.

Another step is to attach all the layers together with a leather thong, like on most findings, and to make the belt rings a bit more dynamic. Nevertheless, it's a great job!

Here´s my topic at the AA of my purse: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewto...highlight=

It's funny to see how much our goals have in common! My legs and arms are from Stanislav as well, I've got a brig and for arming and civilian clothes I also went for HE. Big Grin My new sallet will be from Albert Collins, and I've already got a few bollock daggers to go with the kit. Brig and gauntlets are from White Rose, as are my current sallet and bevor.
Laughing Out Loud


Edit: I only just realised you also frequent the armour archive, by your wife's lovely goddess dagger.. So you've probably seen my pics before, I'm sorry.
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Aaron Schnatterly




Location: New Glarus, WI
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PostPosted: Fri 12 Dec, 2008 12:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually, Ben, your purse is one that has inspired me to upgrade and push my own limits a bit further. There are additional details that I'd like to include (you mentioned some). I'd also like to give an honest go at the larger purse from Purses in Pieces with the wax tablet holder on the inside.


Total aside, yes, our goals and tastes tend to be aligned a good bit. Dube' is putting the finishing touches on my sallet and bevor right now... should ship out this week. It's a piece inspired by that oh-so-sweet CH S-62, though I was really pretty hands-off on the specifics. I haven't even seen an in-prog picture of it! On Peter Johnsson's suggestion, Albert was on my potential list of contacts, and still is for future pieces, perhaps a breast and back or for a kettle. The brig is the one bit of armouring that I'll make a go of myself, with the guidance of Bob and Craig, so I should be alright.


... and yes, I've certainly seen pics of your kit... BEAUTIFUL job putting all of that together. Hopefully someday we might chat and compare notes and ideas?
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Ben van Koert




Location: Veenendaal, the Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 12 Dec, 2008 1:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you!

My purse actually is the second one that the guy who made it constructed. You'll never guess what was his first.. the one with the wax tablet holder! He made a few very nice details, like toolling on the tablet holder and a tooled medieval cityscape of the town Wageningen, where he lives, on the pseudocover.
I'd go for that if I were you, as it's really awesome. I had the option too, but I wanted it not to be too big.

I'll keep a close eye on your work, as I'm really interested where you're going. This already looks really nice. The person who made mine used Illustrator to make his patterns first. Maybe you can use this as well? It worked really convenient, especially in his contacts with me, while we were still adjusting the general shape during the design phase.

Making a brig with Bob and Craig at your disposal sounds like a great plan! It's good to have persons like them to guide you. I'd love to see how it comes together!
Eric Dube is a great choice, although a bit too far away for me. I love his work! I can recommend Albert in the communication department, as I'm very pleased by the initial contact I've had. I still have to wait a year or so before he can start on my new sallet + bevor combi, based on the italian export sallet + bevor in the RA. (previously CH T61, in Churburg, now II.168 in the RA), but I have much confidence in him. It'll also be raised in one piece and hardened, tempered spring steel.

Quote:
Hopefully someday we might chat and compare notes and ideas?

I'd really love to! It's the coolest look around, so I'm really interested in your version of it. Wink
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Mick Czerep




Location: Poland
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PostPosted: Fri 12 Dec, 2008 2:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi guys!
I certainly can't recommnend Albert enough. He's a great craftsman and a really nice person. Time permitting I'll post my purse project as done Happy Albert customers, purse makers - unite! Other pieces of my kit come from different makers, so I'm keeping quiet there.

Sordes ocurrit
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Tim Mathews




Location: St Paul MN
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Dec, 2008 6:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,
Great looking pouch ... I would be interested in purchasing one if you are going to be producing them for sale ...
Please send me a PM and let me know about cost ,time frame , etc.
Thanks very much and again ... Lovely work!

Tim Mathews
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