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Carl Massaro




Location: NY
Joined: 02 Mar 2004

Posts: 87

PostPosted: Fri 04 Apr, 2008 1:32 am    Post subject: 18th century German Cuttoe - help identifying mark         Reply with quote

I am trying to identiy whether this cuttoe is a German Hirshfänger, or hunting sword. I would also like to know if it is 18th, and not 19th century.



The thing that interests me is that the inscription on the spine of the blade reads: "Knegt a Sohlegen". I am assuming that "Knegt" is the maker's name and that "Sohlegen" is Solingen. However, I have never seen that spelling of Solingen or any reference to it. I am curious to know more about it.

Could anyone help me shed some light on this?
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Don Stanko




Location: ohio
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Reading list: 478 books

Posts: 230

PostPosted: Fri 04 Apr, 2008 4:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The blade maker is probably Gio (Johannes) Knegt of Solingen. He sometimes uses the broader term "En Alemania" instead of Solingen when marking his blades. Also, he tended to make his N's backwards. Some armourers books list him as operating as early as 1670, but most put his work in the mid 1700's. This is just one possibility, there were many Knegt's or Kneght's listed as operating in Germany at that time.

Last edited by Don Stanko on Sat 05 Apr, 2008 8:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,814

PostPosted: Fri 04 Apr, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Carl,

Some random thoughts. In looking at some other pictures of this particular example, I would have a hard time saying it was not a purely civilian piece. Also that the spine inscription looks added to me, hence could have been done far from the source and its moment in history, hence the spelling.

A hirschfanger is a hunting sword is a cuttoe, for all intents and pruposes but I tend to think of cuttoe as having curved blades. I think it is more a matter of local description though. Most sidearms used by jaeger or chausser troops and officers tend to be lless decorative in hunting themes. This one is quite embelliished with a hunting scene on the counterguard and the dog head quillons. One would expect to see either a coat of arms for an important jaeger piece, or a much plainer motif.

As the particular item is likely to be relisted, I'm not really inclined to comment much further except to say I'm suprised it didn't sell.

Cheers

GC
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Carl Massaro




Location: NY
Joined: 02 Mar 2004

Posts: 87

PostPosted: Fri 04 Apr, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, this is a beautiful piece. It is not currently listed. I would like to know more about that inscription and the "sohlegen" spelling.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,814

PostPosted: Fri 04 Apr, 2008 2:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is one of its possible relatives.

German Hunting Sword
Actually, if you take that spelling to Google, you will find the auction as ended and all the rest of the pictures. Also a few other pages in what looks like German to me.

A rather curmudgeonly but often quite accurate professional appraiser has a line I like a lot.regarding questionable marks "Look at how an item is marked. Disregard what the marking happens to say". I simply question whether the mark is original to the sword. It is just an observation. I would not evaluate the piece based soley on the mark.

I'm sure it will be relisted.

Cheers

GC
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Carl Massaro




Location: NY
Joined: 02 Mar 2004

Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sun 27 Apr, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi guys! I wound up purchasing this sword and am very happy with it. The "knegt a sohlegen" mark looks to be original and the same as the other marks on the blade.

I also noticed something hidden (actually, my wife did), before the word "knegt" was what appears to be the name "Jean" covered by dirt. The "J" looked fancy and could almost have been an "F". Has anyone heard of Jean Knegt? I looked around but can't find any swordmakers with that name. Could he be the same maker as Gio or Johannes Kneght?

I am still assuming that this sword is from around 1740.
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Carl Massaro




Location: NY
Joined: 02 Mar 2004

Posts: 87

PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I did some more research and found out that people named "Johannes" often went by the name "Jean". I have found evidence for this dating back to the 17th century and in Switzerland, Germany and France.

Anyone think they can shed more light on this?
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 11:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Carl,
Do you have a copy of Bezdek's German Swords and Sword Makers? If not, I will look through my copy and see if I can find anything for you.

Jonathan
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Carl Massaro




Location: NY
Joined: 02 Mar 2004

Posts: 87

PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 7:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Hopkins wrote:
Carl,
Do you have a copy of Bezdek's German Swords and Sword Makers? If not, I will look through my copy and see if I can find anything for you.

Jonathan


Jonathan, No, unfortunately, I don't have that book. If you would be so kind, I would greatly appreciate it!
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