Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > How did pike and shot work together? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Helge B.





Joined: 06 Mar 2008

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar, 2008 7:33 am    Post subject: How did pike and shot work together?         Reply with quote

I wonder how the pikemen protected the musketeers/arquebusiers against cavalry in detail.

Did the pikemen dissolve into the pike square or did they try to get behind them? Both maneuvers would seem pretty awkward to me especially when the shot part became larger in comparison to the pike.
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Curl




Location: Northern California, US
Joined: 06 Jan 2008

Posts: 486

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar, 2008 12:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm by no means an expert on this, but with the spanish tercio, the shot were often simply placed around the perimeter of the square, this means that they had no flank. However this also meant that they had lack of concentration of shot. I only know this because I have term paper due on gustavus adolphus in 1 week so I have been reading on how teh Holy Roman Empire fought at the time.
E Pluribus Unum
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Helge B.





Joined: 06 Mar 2008

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Tue 01 Apr, 2008 5:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mostly the shot was placed as sleeves (mangas with the tercios) next to the pike square. My question now is where did they move if enemy cavalry charged directly at them? How could the pike get inbetween?

After all this had to happen pretty fast as even with the more powerful musket they had to shoot at a distance below 100m. The charging cavalry could travel this distance in a very short time.
View user's profile Send private message
Eric Myers




Location: Sacramento, CA
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 214

PostPosted: Tue 01 Apr, 2008 2:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The shot can be placed in between files of pike. In this case, they shot advances forwards of the pikemen before firing, then can retreat as needed. Also, if the shot is placed outside the pike square and cavalry charges, the shot is more movile, so they run into the pike square, not the other way around.
Eric Myers
Sacramento Sword School
ViaHup.com - Wiki di Scherma Italiana
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen Hand




Location: Hobart, Australia
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 225

PostPosted: Tue 01 Apr, 2008 3:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The shot could fire by extraduction, that is, deliver volleys by one or more ranks and retire between the files of pikemen. The pikemen could then double their files, which means that every pikeman in the second, fourth etc rank takes a step to the left and advances into the rank ahead to double the number of files (that is the number of men in each rank). The pike would then charge to horse and draw swords - butt end of the pike on the ground with the point at horses' chest level with the rear ranks charging - pikes level at face height.

These drills are based on various English Civil War drill manuals and I've done all of them so I know they're practical.

Cheers
Stephen

Stephen Hand
Editor, Spada, Spada II
Author of English Swordsmanship, Medieval Sword and Shield

Stoccata School of Defence
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
David Evans




Location: Rotherham, West Riding
Joined: 09 Sep 2004

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Wed 02 Apr, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Pike and shot         Reply with quote

Ok, I'm tempted.

Shot and Pike, throughout the English Civil Wars very rarely fought in the open. Big battles with large formations are rare and, if you know the Civil war at all well, you can name nearly all the major actions quite quickly.

Most actions take place over ground broken up by small enclosures, hedges, ditches, walls, orchards, scrub, and buildings. Which meant Musket could be "detached" to the nearest obstacle to fight over. The Pike spent a fair amount of time in reserve, ready to repell breaks throughs or to lead a break through. The Horse would spend a lot of time either waiting for the enemy to be pushed into more open ground or trying to push through down various lanes.

However. When action took place in more open ground, the shot will wing the Pike and fire by usually by ranks, retiring, maintaining or gaining ground. At long ranges the shot would advance by files upwards of 200 paces, fire and retire. At closer ranges the shot would fire by volleys, usually trying to fire everybody in one volley as late as possible, before reverting to clubbed musket. Shot were not afraid of mixing it with Horse at Clubbed musket, nearly killing the future James II at the Battle of the Dunes. The Pike virtually never used the posture "Charge for Horse" as it's very static(and a bit of a groin stretcher), once you're adopted the posture, you're stuck. Frequently shot would advance to form in front of the Pike, fire by ranks and retire to the rear of the Pike. The Pike would charge pike and hold the Horse off, resulting in a whirling mass of Horse lapping around the Pike in a confused blob, which shot could and did take advantage of.....

The rather complicated Files in open order extraction etc are very messy and not worth risking with any but very highly trained and very well practised troops. We (The Fairfax Battalia) have trained in these methods and all went yeuch!
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > How did pike and shot work together?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum