Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Fighting with the scabbard on foot, Also: CF's M@A Belt Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Reading list: 3 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,435

PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 3:29 am    Post subject: Fighting with the scabbard on foot, Also: CF's M@A Belt         Reply with quote

Looking at period artworks, it's obvious that footmen, using swords, did fight with their scabbards on them. However, in my experience, they're somewhat cumbersome. I am not a tall individual, so this likely adds to the problem. For the more experienced members here, how does one hang their scabbard in such a way as so it does not become a burden in combat?

Also, about two years back I ordered this belt. While the question is dumb, I figured it warrants asking (as I really haven't used it, as it's difficult to fit my wasters scabbard into the holder for it): Is the buckle supposed to be dead center, like modern belts, with the sword tangent to my hips, or is the buckle shifted to the right, with the sword more towards the front of me?

M.

This space for rent or lease.
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
Daniel Staberg




Location: Gothenburg/Sweden
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 562

PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 5:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My experience is that as with most military gear training is the key. By trainign with the item(s) in question you ge tused to them and learn how to adjust the way they are worn to best suit you. During my first months as a conscript in the Swedish army wearing, helmet, webbing, side arm and the other basic personal gear was a bothersome hindernace as we worked fire control equipment and the guns. 12 months later the gear had become if not a second skin something fairly close to it.

I've experienced the same with scabbards, at start they were a problem but with increased experience I got used wearing one. However all of my current scabbards are of the all-leather type. The lack of a wooden core probably makes them soemwhat less of problem.
The type of the sword plays a part as well. The scabbard for a short sword like a katzbalger woudl cause few or noen of the problems caused by the scababrd for a long sword.

My two euro-cents
Daniel
View user's profile Send private message
Bennison N




Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 416

PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 5:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My Dotanuki has an iron scabbard. I use it as a second weapon.

I have always held my sword, when sheathed, by the scabbard in my left hand, and drawn with my right. I do not, however, have a lot of experience with European style hanging scabbards. Japanese saya (for Katana, Tachi are worn differently) are held differently in the belt, and do not cause much annoyance, even when kicking with the left. I do not wear Jian on my belt, and I generally draw them from atop my left arm.

All I can say, from having looked at a few pictures of belt-hung European swords, that it seems to be a matter of personal preference. Experts on that type of weapon may able to offer more assistance. I would say try out a few ways, and see what works for you...

"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" - Confucius

अजयखड्गधारी


Last edited by Bennison N on Tue 25 Mar, 2008 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Alexandria, VA USA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Reading list: 43 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 4,148

PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 6:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Do you have an accurate suspension belt? It makes all the difference in the world. I used to think having the scabbard was clumsy as well, but this is because most modern-made suspension systems and "frogs" to carry the scabbard do not sit right. Most historical patterns make the scabbard very comfortable to wear.
Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Reading list: 3 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,435

PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 6:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a link in my first post regarding one of my two belts. The other is a cheap version, a Kult of Athena "Medieval Double Wrap Belt".

M.

This space for rent or lease.
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Cincinnati, OH
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 21 pages
Reading list: 231 books

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 9,138

PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 6:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
I have a link in my first post regarding one of my two belts. The other is a cheap version, a Kult of Athena "Medieval Double Wrap Belt".

M.


The CF Man at Arms belt, while attractive in its own way, doesn't look very historical to me.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,576

PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 6:28 am    Post subject: Re: Fighting with the scabbard on foot, Also: CF's M@A Belt         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
Looking at period artworks, it's obvious that footmen, using swords, did fight with their scabbards on them. However, in my experience, they're somewhat cumbersome. I am not a tall individual, so this likely adds to the problem. For the more experienced members here, how does one hang their scabbard in such a way as so it does not become a burden in combat?

Also, about two years back I ordered this belt. While the question is dumb, I figured it warrants asking (as I really haven't used it, as it's difficult to fit my wasters scabbard into the holder for it): Is the buckle supposed to be dead center, like modern belts, with the sword tangent to my hips, or is the buckle shifted to the right, with the sword more towards the front of me?

M.


Basically, your problem is that the scabbard for practical purposes only has one riser.
If you simply tie a cord to the scabbard loop, you can attach it to the belt on the opposite side, and keep it in place.

In combat, you generally want the scabbard to stay put in one place. I usually thighten mine so that it sticks to the side.
For casual wear, however, you might want the scabbard to be more loose, so that it can move when bumping into things.

I use the standard issue early/high medevial three point suspension, which works quite well.

(picture from www.lutel.cz)

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Reading list: 3 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,435

PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 7:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks.

Elling: Are you talking about the CF one, or this one:




Chad Arnow wrote:
M. Eversberg II wrote:
I have a link in my first post regarding one of my two belts. The other is a cheap version, a Kult of Athena "Medieval Double Wrap Belt".

M.


The CF Man at Arms belt, while attractive in its own way, doesn't look very historical to me.


Quite the pity :/


M.


EDIT: Then is when I realize that the CF belt is tied differently from mine, which explains the problem I'm having.

This space for rent or lease.
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,576

PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 7:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:

Elling: Are you talking about the CF one, or this one:


The CF.
I never used a belt like the Cult of Athena one, but my guess is that it will be quite bumpy, and tend to hit your in the leg when you run.
Again, it can be fixed by adding a third riser, from the scabbard to somewhere on the back.

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
Joined: 16 Feb 2006

Posts: 552

PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I usually carry the scabbard attached to the belt with three points/straps. The back strap is further back and attached toward the rear of my back to hold the scabbard tight. The scabbard is not even with my hips, but a bit back from my side and hips. Since I turn my hips when drawing my sword this works well for me and tends to leave the scabbard to my rear if I fight with it on.

However you did touch on one important point, namely your height. I have overly long legs to a shorter torso, so most sword scabbards on me don't touch the ground. So I'm able to get away with some supensions others probably couldn't. Other people I know who are shorter don't have so easy and have to have tighter/higher suspensions to carry a sword on their hips.

In the end, you need to try out and think upon what works best for you and adjust things to work for your height and profile.
View user's profile Send private message
Christian Henry Tobler
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, CT
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 690

PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 10:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some earlier suspensions used two points, rather than three. You can see this on several c.1290-1325 English effigies and brasses. However, these aren't set up like the one from Kult of Athena - the two points are staggered, so the sword must hang at a backward angle.

Best,

CHT

Christian Henry Tobler
Order of Selohaar

Freelance Academy Press: Books on Western Martial Arts and Historical Swordsmanship

Author, In Saint George's Name: An Anthology of Medieval German Fighting Arts
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Fighting with the scabbard on foot, Also: CF's M@A Belt
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum