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Sjouke de Jong





Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar, 2008 2:58 am    Post subject: How to give a sword an Antique Finish.....         Reply with quote

Hallo,

I was wondering, How do you properly give a sword an “Antique Finish”

You see, I’m planning on getting the Windlass Dutch Cutlass, and I want to give it a used look.

I’ve heard that you can do it by first removing the lacquer from the blade, using paint thinner or turpentine.

And then rub it with a little bit of a ammonia based household cleaner.

But does this not damage the blade?

Isn’t there another way of giving a sword an Antique or used look, without harming the blade in any way?

I hope you can help me out,

Sjouke.



 Attachment: 35.19 KB
odf_hanger2.jpg
Here is an Example of what I wish to accomplish
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Chase S-R




Location: New Mexico
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar, 2008 3:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

here read this its all about antiquing
The Instant Antique: A Practical Guide
and removing the laquer does not damage the blade
Happy Happy Happy

Charles Stewart Rodriguez
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Gary A. Chelette




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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar, 2008 6:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Outside of heating up the metal cherry red, a little house hold cleaner should not harm the blade except to change it's appearance.
But controlling the appearance, now that's an art!

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar, 2008 10:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chase S-R wrote:
here read this its all about antiquing
[u]The Instant Antique: A Practical Guide[/u]
and removing the laquer does not damage the blade
Happy Happy Happy


Your post didn't actually include a link, so here it is: http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_antique.html

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Edward Hitchens




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PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Strange as it sounds, I've long since discovered that the best way to achieve an antique look is to do nothing beyond routine maintenance.

Over time (say, 4 or 5 years) you will start to notice a darkening patina develop on the pommel and cross, but not so much on the blade. Eventually, it may even start to look as though you have a blued or antiqued hilt. I once owned an Albion FirstGeneration Acre sword that developed such a patina that people have asked me how much extra money it cost to have it antiqued! This could be seen as regular wear and tear - or as I prefer to see it, the sword 'improving' with age like a fine wine and writing its own history. Wink

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Bruno Giordan





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PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar, 2008 4:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Keep it in a damp cellar for an year ... possibly wrapped with a damp paper cloth moistened with a solution of saltwater and hydrogen peroxide ... and try to distribute the solution unevenly.
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Richard Eskite




Location: Northern California
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar, 2008 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: How to give a sword an Antique Finish.....         Reply with quote

Sjouke de Jong wrote:
Hallo,

I was wondering, How do you properly give a sword an “Antique Finish”

You see, I’m planning on getting the Windlass Dutch Cutlass, and I want to give it a used look.

I’ve heard that you can do it by first removing the lacquer from the blade, using paint thinner or turpentine.

And then rub it with a little bit of a ammonia based household cleaner.

But does this not damage the blade?

Isn’t there another way of giving a sword an Antique or used look, without harming the blade in any way?

I hope you can help me out,

Sjouke.


I have had very acceptable results with applying mustard to cleaned steel, as well as gunsmith's cold bluing and also browing solutions. In fact, I browned the furniture from a Dutch Cutlass and combined it with a mustard treated Del Tin falchion blade I had modified on my belt grinder with great results.

If you are trying to remove the lacquer from factory blades, you will need chemical paint stripper. Mineral spirits and turpentine aren't agressive enough, in my experience. Burgundy scotch-brite is very useful in this regard, as well.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar, 2008 1:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

None of the last four Windlass Steelcrafts swords I've bought had lacquered blades. They may not lacquer anymore, so be sure to check yours before you invest lots of time in assembling material for stripping the blade.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar, 2008 7:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bruno Giordan wrote:
Keep it in a damp cellar for an year ... possibly wrapped with a damp paper cloth moistened with a solution of saltwater and hydrogen peroxide ... and try to distribute the solution unevenly.


My experience with mustard or lemon juice has been that it only takes a few hours for a patina or rust to form: A year in a damp cellar covered with saltwater would be fine if one wants the buried for centuries look and heavily corroded. One might end up with just a mass of rust and little sword left.

In any case I would check results after a few hours or a day at most before risking leaving it to rust for a year. Eek! Laughing Out Loud

Maybe Bruno was half joking about leaving it for a year ??? Or, if he actually did it this way and got good result ?

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Russ Thomas
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Location: Telemark, Norway
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PostPosted: Fri 21 Mar, 2008 3:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

I have obtained quite nice results by wrapping the item loosley in very wet leather, then wrap the item in a plastic bag and leave it on a wooden board on a warm radiator ( be careful that the radiator does not overheat !). Turn the item every couple of hours.
You could also probably achieve the same effect by leaving the item next to the hot water tank, but it would take somewhat longer. Overnight on a radiator should do the job quite nicely. This should give the item a nice even, slightly pitted appearance when lightly polished afterwards. .......overnight ! Salt water would be even more effective probably, but I have not tried this personally.

Regards,

Russ

Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero !


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Johan S. Moen




Location: Kristiansand, Norway
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PostPosted: Fri 21 Mar, 2008 3:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ Thomas wrote:
Hi Folks,

I have obtained quite nice results by wrapping the item loosley in very wet leather, then wrap the item in a plastic bag and leave it on a wooden board on a warm radiator ( be careful that the radiator does not overheat !). Turn the item every couple of hours.


Was that what happened to my dagger? Laughing Out Loud

Good to see you here mate!

Johan Schubert Moen
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Russ Thomas
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Location: Telemark, Norway
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PostPosted: Fri 21 Mar, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Johan,

Well, yes, and no ! Actually the pitting on your dagger was caused by the nisser when it was already finished and they had hidden it upstairs in the house !! Eek! By that time the leather was well and truly dry and stained and oiled. But it was while making scabbards this way that I did 'discover' this way of antiqueing metal ! Cool

It is good to have internet connection again Johan ! See you around here then..................


Regards as ever,

Russ

PS. In case anyone else other than Johan is by chance reading this post, I should explain that 'Nisser', are little elves that live in the woods here in Norway, and who get up to all sorts of mischief ! Eek!

Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero !


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Sjouke de Jong





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PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 10:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hallo again.

Thanks for the link.

I must say I was a bit surprised that I oversaw that page.

Guess I wasn’t paying much attention as I had a quick look at the various pages on myArmoury.com

However…..

There are a few things that aren’t entirely clear to me…

First of all, this centnce from the The Instant Antique page:
“The sprayed steel will quickly begin to turn gray. Within 24 hours it will be Brown”

So does this mean that if you leave the pray on for 24 hours, the steal will turn brown?

This would mean that I need to wash it of sooner if I do not won’t it to turn to a brown rusty blade.

And I CERTAINLY don’t want it to turn brown.

You see, I wish to add a “used” look to my blade,
the way a sword would look if it has already had it’s share of battles and other uses.

In my case (getting the Dutch Cutlass) the effects of things like rain and salt sea-air and salty water splashing at my leather scabbard.

Like the Denix 25 Pirate Cutlass: http://gun-sword.stores.yahoo.net/aac-458.html and

http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Tang-NAVAL-PIRATE-CU...dZViewItem

I don’t want to let my blade look as if it is 300 years old or anything.

So, how do I need to add the salt and vinegar on my blade to get this effect?

And what about the mustard?

I hope you can once again help me out…

Sjouke

Ps:
I haven’t bin able t see how much salt and vinegar needs to be added to the blade,
and if I wish to make the effect less aggressive, is it an option to mix it with water?



 Attachment: 6.08 KB
BLADE swcutpntedguard06[1].jpg
this is the Antique Finish I need,
A used look

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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've noticed that some folks follow only part of the advice I offered in the Instant Antique article. I actually don't care for the look of arms and armour just left to rust. The point of the process I described was to let the steel develop a certain amount of rust and then conserve it so that it looks like a museum piece. In other words, one doesn't simply let the piece rust forever. Whether the salt and vinegar solution is left on for 20 minutes or 20 days, the sword must be cleaned, the active rust removed and the steel stabilized by the application of wax or some other protective measure.

Yes, the wet stuff on the steel will turn brown in about 24 hours. Then you wipe it off and see how the steel is reacting so far. If it needs more time to pit and stain, apply more solution. If not, proceed to conservation. If you want just a gray finish with a few stains, leave on the solution for a few hours before conserving. Anything done can be undone, so don't be afraid to experiment. Just keep in mind that the application of salt and vinegar, mustard, ketchup, citrus, etc. is actually a very small part of the whole process, and unlikely to yield authentic-looking results without the harder work of conservation.

Note this passage from the article:

clean off all the loose rust with Very Fine #00 steel wool. A worn-out sanding sponge will speed the cleaning process, but should be followed with the steel wool. Compare the cleaned finish to your guide images and decide how to fine tune the next application of solution. You may want to skip some areas in the next spraying, for example, or let the steel rust for a longer period.

Repeat the rusting and cleaning cycles until you have the desired finish. Be sure to remove all reddish-brown rust, but leave the brown or black staining beneath. Hard-to-clean recessed areas such as pits, engravings and fullers will be significantly darker than the surrounding steel after cleaning, and will have much better definition than bright steel. Remember that the goal is not to have a long lump of red rust, but to have steel that looks like it has been neglected, then carefully cleaned and conserved.

When you have the finish you want, wipe the replica clean and protect it with a preservative such as WD-40 or Renaissance Wax. Even with these treatments, the finish will darken and dim a bit over time, and you'll probably want to lightly polish the replica with steel wool from time to time to preserve its museum-piece glow.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Peter Bosman




Location: Andalucia
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Mar, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
The point of the process I described was to let the steel develop a certain amount of rust and then conserve it so that it looks like a museum piece.


I understand what you write, no critsism there.

Readers however should be very clear about the fact that rusting of iron CANNOT BE STOPPED. The oxidation/christallisation can be delayed only.
I can dig up the optimum values for you but the gist is that VERY low humidity, low temperature and a lot of light are delaying factors.
Modern insights among museum conservers is that 'restoration' must be done with the greatest reluctance and very conservatively (pun intended). It is actually best to let waxed/oiled objects devellop rust than to 'maintain' them as this involves removal of material.

Now, this latter is obviously of non importance for replicas but it is nevertheless important to realise that oxidation of iron cannot be reversed nor stopped. Conservations in this respect means delaying.

peter
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Sjouke de Jong





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PostPosted: Mon 24 Aug, 2009 11:04 am    Post subject: My final set of questions regarding this subject         Reply with quote

Hallo,

It's bin quite a while sins I posted the subject: How to give a sword an Antique Finish.....

I have yet to put my plans in motion, something got between it. The perpetrator for this is a Large Depression I was suffering from for more then a year...

I'm beginning to recover and am therefor planning on at last giving my Cutlasses a Used look.

There however are a few things that are still unclear to me.

1. My blades are covert in Sword oil to protect them from rust. What would be the best way of removing this?

2. What is best to put on my blades for the antiquing? an ammonia based household cleaner, Vinegar and salt or just Vinegar? If I want a less aggressive liguid, is it an option to mix it with water?

Or do you have another proposal? I've seen many options so I'm not sure witch to choose.

3. If I have put on the chosen Liguid and have given it time to pit and stain, I will remove it using a Rust removel pad (being a Very fine sandpaper) Or should I wipe (clean) it off? if so, with what?

After this I should clean it to remove the rest of the rusting liquid, to prevent futher rusting. But What should I clean it with? a type of detergent? Soap?

After this I will sprey it with Sword oil to preserve the Look, but is this enough to protect that look.

This is quide a load of questions, but I wish to be absolutely sure I do this right.

I hope someone can ones more help me out.

Yours sincerely,

Sjouke
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