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Sonny Suttles
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject: An invitation to all myArmoury visitors         Reply with quote

As many of you know, Valiant Armoury has been working with Christian Fletcher and Gus Trim to produce 2 new lines of swords: The Signature Collection and a New Practical line. Now we are in the beginning process of redesigning the base line. Some will be retired (deservedly so) others will be tweaked with great improvements on quality. Some swords will be completely overhauled. I have asked Gus and Christian to assist in this process but I had the thought of receiving input from any interested parties on this forum. I am willing to take any input providing it is practical to implement and keep the models as a base entry swords. Don't let this description fool you though. These newer designs will be vastly superior to anything Valiant Armoury has produced in the past for this level of sword. Anyway, if you have any thing to add whether it is advice or drawings or whatever, Please feel free to contact me through this forum.

Best Regards,

Sonny Suttles
Valiant Armoury
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 10:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sonny,
This topic has been moved to our Makers and Manufacturers Talk forum. Product announcements and advertisements by Industry Professionals are to be confined to that forum. For more info, please see here.

Thank you.

Happy

ChadA

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Joel Chesser




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 11:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One thing i have been noticing was lacking on the market is a viking sword with a type H hilt. I would also like to see some very simple, streight forward, single handed swords of the type used during the crusades, and a simple type XIIa. Another type of sword lacking on the market is a spatha typesword.

Im really impressed by your willingness get input from the community, andby your desire toimproveyour products. Thank you.


- Joel


p.s.I do like the ebony grips,I hope you continue to use them.

..." The person who dosen't have a sword should sell his coat and buy one."

- Luke 22:36
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M. Eversberg II




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Daggers.

M.

This space for rent or lease.
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Sonny Suttles
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Location: Grapevine Texas
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry about where I started this thread Chad. I put it there because I was looking for input from the majority of the Members and I thought that it would be seen better than in Just Makers and Manufacturers. I am not promoting the Valiant Armoury line here, just looking for input on the re-designs.

Joel, I am keeping the Norseman but tweaking the weights and dimensions. As for the 055 Viking that is Pre-11-06 (The Date I bought the Company) It is in for a full overhaul. A Type H Viking might be just the thing.

Thanks,

Sonny
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Sonny Suttles
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 2:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg,
As for the Daggers, What kind? Any Suggestions? Christian and I did discuss possibly doing some daggers in the Signature line. I am looking for input though right now on the soon to be reworked basic line.
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Victor R.




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 3:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would love to see a kriegsmesser that is more historically accurate than the Cold Steel "grosse messer" and at a more affordable price point than Albion's Knecht.
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Randy W




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 4:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I second the request on a messer-type also
Randy Westgate
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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have to second the idea of a basic dagger, also a basic seax, and the "pre-viking" migration era sword that is similar to a viking era blade, but simpler in terms of hilt and historically appropriate to several more centuries.

For sword models in general, a lot of budget minded buyers can just barely afford the blade, and want to make their own scabbard. A basic period appropriate cast chape (would not have to be unique to each sword, I would guess a half dozen to choose from would be enough to recommend one for each model and enough for budget buyers) offered as a $25 option contingent upon sword purchases would be a motivator and extremely nice.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Sonny Suttles
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 5:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for your input Jared,

Most (not all) of the reworked swords will in fact include a wood core leather wrapped scabbard including the chape instead of the leather scabbard that the line currently includes.


Sonny
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Dan Dickinson
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sonny, first of all I would just like to say that I really appreciate your willingness to not only improve your product line (the Signature Line is looking great) but also take constructive criticism/suggestions from users.

I love the viking type H hilts. However, I would insert the caveat that perhaps it is an overdone type.

There is the Kris Cutlery Viking - $289

The Armourclass viking - $299

The Del Tin 2100 - $301

The Albion Squireline Viking - $389

and finally the Albion Hersir - $1,221

I think if another type H hilt were to be done, you would have to have a very clear picture of where it would fall in the price/user spectrum. Are you catering to re-enactors, the take-the-destruction-test-and-come-back-for-more crowd, collectors, etc.?
Personally, if i were developing a type H, I would gear it to fall somewhere in the middle of the price ranges I have shown (I would shoot for the $450-500 range as you are doing with the Signature Line). I would attempt to use the advantage that foreign labor gives to be able to offer some of the nicer features of the higher end of the spectrum such as the two-piece pommel (although the lowest priced model, the KC viking, does feature this method) and perhaps even a wire or scalloped plate between the parts. If these features were included as well as proper blade geometry and mass distribution (such as I am assuming your signature line will have) I believe you would have a real winner (I'd probably buy one myself). The other alternative would be to go for the low-budget end (say the $150-$250 range) which doesn't seem to feature a good type H. Personally though, I think you know which range I'd like to see Wink
Hope some of this helps,
Dan



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Richard Gessman




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think its great that you've taken the time to ask the arms and armor community what items they would like to see made available.

I'd have to agree with Victor and Randy here. I think a more historically accurate and affordable Kriegsmesser would be a welcome addition to the market.
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Chase S-R




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

id love a type h with silver and or copper inlay and a two-peice pommekl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i think a good patternwelded sword would benice no one has these with a type h except custom makers
how about some scabbords with intigrated belts
i love blued steel with brown leather
amid size seax with an antler hilt
and the world could use more hollow-ground blades

Charles Stewart Rodriguez
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Sonny Suttles
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 6:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just wanted to clarify what it is I am looking for here. These are redesigns of the Basic models in the price range of 175 - 275. If it is a Mid level production sword (400 - 600 ) that you are suggesting then I am sure that we can consider something like that in the future for the Signature line providing Gus and Christian are willing to design that piece. I have seen one of Christian's sketch books of swords and it is quite full of future "Signature Collection" swords.

Sonny
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Dan Dickinson
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 6:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry about that Sonny.
How about both types then?
Thanks,
Dan
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Richard Gessman




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 7:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think a model that could benefit from some minor improvements would be your irish ring hilt sword. I bought one of these a long time ago, and while I've always really liked the design, it seems a bit heavy to me. Making the guard out of a single piece of steel, and sending the tang through both ends of the ring pommel would be a nice touch. Also, if the size of the hilt and blade width was scaled down a bit, the sword may be a little lighter and more responsive? I think doing that would make an already great sword even better.

Last edited by Richard Gessman on Mon 18 Feb, 2008 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joel Chesser




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have the Agincourt and have always loved the shape of the gaurd. I think though the piece would be a lot nicer with a narrower grip and thicker pommel. I also have always loved the war sword. Both though could use updates on the blades to make them more historiccaly accurate. maybe bige them type XII/XIIa blades in keeping with the parralel edges and roounded point, or a tyle XVIII XVIIIa in keeping with the diamond cross section. just thoughts. Happy
Im really excited about the new collections. the signature line looks fantastic already and a revamped basic line will be great. keep up the great work!

..." The person who dosen't have a sword should sell his coat and buy one."

- Luke 22:36
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sonny,
I'm excited to see makers looking for feedback from customers (or potential customers). Looking through your existing base line, I'd offer the following suggestions:

1) Many of the guards are simply too bulky/thick. This will affect the handling to a degree and will also make them look like less-than-stellar copies of historic pieces.
2) Get rid of the bands on the ends of many of the grips. I don't know if this will involve changing some major elements of your constructions, but it contributes in no small way to an ahistoric look.
3) Get rid of the ricasso on swords where it's not appropriate. Many makers of lower-priced swords have ricassos throughout their product line, despite them only being appropriate in certain cases.
4) I know some people like the bare-wood look, but it doesn't seem to have been the norm for much of the sword's era. Leather seems to be more common, followed by wire wraps. Avoid suede for grips.
5) Studying more published examples and, better yet, museum pieces will show the more subtle shapings of blade and hilt that many lower-priced sword makers overlook. Many pieces look far too two-dimensional and therefore, too modern.

Happy

ChadA

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Sonny Suttles
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 8:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good points all. I have attached a potential New version of the 079 War Sword. Type XVa.

Feedback anyone?



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Possible War Sword redesign [ Download ]
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Dan Dickinson
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Much, much better....if that's the kind of direction you're taking the normal line I'm very impressed.
Dan
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