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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug, 2003 12:36 am    Post subject: Angus Trim and Curves         Reply with quote

Hey Gus-

It's about the time of the year that I start buggin' vendors for new things. I've been talking with you about curved blades for quite some time now, so it's probably time I check in on it.

Do you still have plans on doing curved saber type blades? If so, how's the development going and what is the status of the schedule at this point?

As you know, I'm very much wanting to see more curved European weapons on the market: two-handed sabers, grosse messers, falchions, etc.

The minute you get one available, I'll buy the blade and change one of my outstanding orders with Erik Stevenson to accommodate this type of blade!

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Scott Byler




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PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug, 2003 1:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll second the desire to see more curved Euro blades on the market. Not nearly as much choice in that arena as in the straight bladed wares.
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug, 2003 8:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Nathan

You know, I have a slew of photos of late 16th century and later Polish and Hungarian sabers. But I only have three for the fifteenth century, and I believe they're all Hungarian. I need more.......

Not so much for the hilts, as the blades. With the Pole and Hungarian Saber photos, came several measurements. I only have one for spec for the Hungarian fifteenth century stuff, and that's the hand and a half there are so many photos of.

When?

Frankly I don't know. You'll remember an email discussion you and I had, where you mentioned in your opinion I was at my best, when I made blades for a custom guy like Erik Stephenson? Well, not to comment on that, but there are three cutler's that have or will receive blades from me in the near future, who's initials are not ES.

One telecon yesterday with a blade customer, touched on these curved thingies......

So far this summer, Erik's got his ussual allotments, but I've also sent rapier blades out to cutler A, sent rapier and longsword blades to cutler B, designed three new X blades, and sent them out to cutler C {and he wants more Roman stuff, and is rounding up more specs as we speak}, and discussed things with cutler D {including curved thingies}.

You know, Nathan, its a strange thing. I had no idea there were still that many guys out there in the US, that did decent work, that had no real web presence, nor a national name.....

We'll see what happens over the next two months, if any of these potential "partnerships" flares, then likely I'll be forced into doing the curved thingies.....

We'll see, there's always a lot of catch 22's in this business...........

Auld Dawg

swords are fun
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Chris Holzman





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PostPosted: Thu 28 Aug, 2003 10:05 pm    Post subject: How about...         Reply with quote

lighter sabre blades... say Italo/Hungarian or German duelling sabres..... especially fencing blades.. theres a market hole for curved fencing sabre blades, like the stuff used in the mid to late 1800's... If there were a confirmed market for some small batches, would that be something you'd consider (especially if you could get an original blade in hand, to play with and copy? (i have a german fencing sabre from the mid 1800's that i'd volunteer) The classical fencing guys would doubtless jump on them, if the prices were anywhere close to reasonable...

I'd also like to see some of the heavier sabres..

I have a project sabre at the moment, mounting it as a shashqa... 34 inch US M1860 Light Cavalry sabre blade (rescued from ebay as a bare blade, definitely an original period blade.... In its current mountings, its 2lbs 2.5oz, POB about 5.5" ahead of the hilt... light, fast, cuts two inch green bamboo like a laser, and eats cardboard for lunch, but is not something i'd want to brutalize and try to cut hard targets with, just due to it being that old. Its fairly thin bladed out toward the tip, but that does contribute to its nice handling.

Frankly, I dont see why more people aren't playing with western curved thingys. The only thing I cant think of is that there is a distinct shortage of good ones out there. otherwise, they're nice. really nice.

Chris Holzman
River City Fencing Club
Wichita, KS
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Sat 30 Aug, 2003 7:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Chris

That's a nice offer, but at the moment I'm focussed on finishing the rapier simulator, dagger simulator, and sidesword simulator projects. Once the supply {guard} problems are solved, then I may very well be interested in a new project.

This simulator stuff has been an interesting, and frustrating project. A year and a half to get the dagger and rapier blades bought off at SCA corporate.

For over a year, I've been told that the stuff is currently the best available, except the guards appearance suck, and they're not quite really available.......

Get this project solved, then maybe another project.........

swords are fun
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 30 Aug, 2003 8:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with Nathan on this one Gus.

The market is pretty well saturated with the "classic" designs. I really think there's an interest, and need for the more unusual off beat stuff. I'd particularly like the see more falchions on the market.
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Chris Holzman





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PostPosted: Sat 30 Aug, 2003 12:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Angus Trim wrote:
Hi Chris

That's a nice offer, but at the moment I'm focussed on finishing the rapier simulator, dagger simulator, and sidesword simulator projects. Once the supply {guard} problems are solved, then I may very well be interested in a new project.

This simulator stuff has been an interesting, and frustrating project. A year and a half to get the dagger and rapier blades bought off at SCA corporate.

For over a year, I've been told that the stuff is currently the best available, except the guards appearance suck, and they're not quite really available.......

Get this project solved, then maybe another project.........


Gus, when you decide its time, (as I must hold out hope, or else I'll have no recourse but the more expensive and less desireable (due to lower production volume) custom smithing) I'll be glad to ship you my blade so you can have something in hand...

I think you'll find the classical fencers to be a much easier market - most i've talked with are desperate for ANY curved sabre blade, in the duelling class... ie....33 to 34 inches in length, 1/2" wide at the tang, tapering to about 5/16" at the tip, curvature of 1/2 to 3/4"... 1/4" thick at the tang, tapering to about 1/8th or so at the tip... and a 1mm blunt edge along the whole true and 1st 1/3 of the false edge... and no muss, fuss, or SCA corporate foolishness to deal with... :-)

Currently we have to either fence with antiques, or use only the new S2002 straight sport blades. great blades, but not for classical sabre.

here's hoping.

I'll also try to get some pictures up fairly soon... I'm working on the weapon now - new handle, rust removal, etc..

Later Dawg,

chris

Chris Holzman
River City Fencing Club
Wichita, KS
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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Sun 31 Aug, 2003 9:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
I agree with Nathan on this one Gus.

The market is pretty well saturated with the "classic" designs. I really think there's an interest, and need for the more unusual off beat stuff. I'd particularly like the see more falchions on the market.


I hear ya Patrick........

But before I can get to the curved stuff, I really need to finish the projects I'm on.

Last year at this time, shortly after getting back from WMAW, I put a lot of energy into developing a longsword that would work for what Bob Charron teaches, and one for what Christian Tobler teaches. At the same time, still working on my rapier simulator project, trying to keep within range of being caught up on sword and blade production, and keeping up with the local job shop {machine shop} work.

One Auld Dawg, not a cast of a dozen or so, though I do have volunteer help with the handling and cutting tests....*g*. And fencing of course with the rapier simulators........

For a numbers oriented kind of guy, to finally be able to work with subjective info, well it was like making a breakthru. But to come up with longswords that Christian would like, and Bob would like, it meant putting enough time and energy into this, that the simulator stuff got pushed back........

Now this year, I'm devoting my copious spare time to getting the compound hilted stuff right. Getting the feel of the fencing pieces "right", getting liveable aesthetics out of the guards, and trying to get the prices of the finished products within a decent range, somewhat less than I had forecast last fall.......

Then there's the sideswords, sparring type. These kinda fall in between the rapier simulators, and real swords. And as luck would have it, they're getting "late" enough that there can be found several antiques even here on the wrong coast {West Coast}, of the wrong continent.

There's a fairly large collection of teastrainers near by {Pat Tuffer's stuff}, and I was there last year with Tink. Took copious notes, and handled several, a couple from the late 16th century........ "Broadsword", and "backsword".......

The thing about the sideswords for sparring, is that baskethilts are popular because of the hand protection. My thinkin' on this is that a sidesword simulator should act like a real sword. In fact, the test pieces I have "out there" are real swords with a .04 inch edge.

The rapier simulators have only one problem left to solve, and that's a supply of guards. I think that issue is solved, but September will be over before I'm sure.....

The sideswords are going to be semi-broken down, in that I'm going to develop some of these for "sharp" practice too. Since the first baskets are on their way from Thailand {Eljay}, I will likely have a "sharp" put together by the end of September. {Note, need to talk to Mac, see if he'd like to looksee first one and give Auld Dawg feedback}.

I have five blade patterns made up for this project, already "balanced" for a fairly lightweight compound hilt. Still, because of where the mass will be, I'm liable to have to adjust things. Of course, I haven't chosen the pommels yet, or made them {assuming I need to make something new}, and its just possible that I can do any adjusting there.......

I thought I had put a lot of energy into the longsword development. But these simulators and teastrainers have sucked up more time, and more energy than the ls' did.....and its not over by a longshot........

My first designed sideswords lasted about a month. Figuring on the SCA making something like this "legal", and going from my own background of liking to make stuff on the lighter side, I didn't put enough beef in the first 6 sideswords, and 1/2 of them snapped in the first six weeks.

The current generation is doing much better......... But then there's a lot more mass in them........

Sometime this month, I need to make arrangements to get up to Pat Tuffer's place again, need to talk to Mac, and need to chase down the "sparring" baskets {needless to say Eljay's baskets aren't for the blade banging action}......

Once I'm happy with the teastrainers, and the simulators, then I can look at something new..... like, well, sabers.......... and fencing sabers.........*g*

swords are fun
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