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Peter Busch




Location: Sydney
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sun 07 Mar, 2004 6:37 pm    Post subject: yes it's back to banning ... :-(         Reply with quote

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1061207.htm

:-(
Quote:
Swords banned in crackdown on gang violence

The Victorian Government will make swords a prohibited weapon from July this year.

Those caught using, possessing or carrying a sword will face penalties up to $12,000 or six months in prison.

Special groups will be required to gain a formal exemption from the new regulation from police and vendors will now have to register those who buy swords.

Police Minister Andre Haermeyer says the ban will help police crack down on the increasing use of swords in gang violence.

"They have been issued with metal detectors and they'll be working very proactively to get these weapons off the street and to deal with those people who think they can walk around the street and arm themselves with the intention of getting into a fight," he said.
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James Aldrich




Location: Green Bay WI
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sun 07 Mar, 2004 8:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As for the gang problem-- how about a well-trained and [sword]armed task force to provide the pathetic wannabes some firsthand experience in what a proper weapon competently handled can do. A nation has exactly as much crime as it is willing to tolerate.

JSA
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Mar, 2004 9:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Correct me if I am wrong, but that refers to Australia, right? Not that this makes the news any merrier!

Alexi
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Markus Haider




Location: Austria, Europe
Joined: 22 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Sun 07 Mar, 2004 10:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexi Goranov wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but that refers to Australia, right? Not that this makes the news any merrier!

Alexi


AFAIK it refers only to the Victoria State in Australia. Prohibiting is no solution, controlling is.
Give the people who want to own a weapon (being a sword or a gun) the possibility to do so. Let them show that they can handle the weapon, and are responsible enough to know what to do and what not. Then give them a licence and don't bother them any longer. If this works for the deadliest weapon (cars), it should work for swords too.

Nonetheless I am glad to live in a country where swords are not even mentioned as weapons in the laws.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Mar, 2004 6:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does that let the guys of Manning Imperial off the hook? They aren't in Victoria are they? I'm certainly glad I'm not...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Allan Senefelder
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Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

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PostPosted: Mon 08 Mar, 2004 6:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is par for the course today . Whether we're talking about Columbine or Victoria how many laws have already
been broken to commit the crime so passing another one will definitely help . Help what ? Help make law abiding folks
criminals for going about their daily lives . People will surrender personal freedom quite readily if its cloaked
in the guise of public safety and this is as classic an example as i've ever heard of !
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Mar, 2004 7:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I certainly hope that some mindless politician will NOT come up with the "bright" idea to ban/control swords here in the USA under the pretext of "war on terrorism" or some other half-baked safety excuse. After all guns are still legal here, but I think that is mostly due to the hard lobbying of gun enthusiasts. If it should come to this (and I sincerely hope it never does) can we round up enough people to make it clear that we want the right to own swords? Or is that covered under the constitutional provision of the right to bear arms?

Alexi
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Allen W





Joined: 02 Mar 2004

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Mon 08 Mar, 2004 7:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually the NRA is quite active in the knife and sword community and are likely to be among the first defenders if it comes down to it. As with guns and "dangerous literature" this is an attack on ability and is fundamentally a mutual threat.
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Brett Josef Schmidthuber




Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 09 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Tue 16 Mar, 2004 10:09 pm    Post subject: yes it's back to banning ... :-(         Reply with quote

I think the greatest irony of all here is, That laws such as these really don't do much in terms of what they want them. If they are making these "Laws" to use against criminals (People notorious for breaking and or ignoring LAWS), it's really quite inane and useless.

I fully agree with Allan S. They're only hurting "Law abiding" citizens, with these laws, rather then the people who ignore them. Making something illegal doesn't mean you get rid of it or control it. Currently, where I live- switchblades are illegal, yet I've had one pulled on Me before.

More proof? Think about the "war on drugs". I could go on and on about the laws and punishments for smuggleing, selling, and even using such substances, But the cold hard fact remains- Yes, they are illegal with many tough sounding official laws against them. Are they at all dissipated and gone to any dramatic degree? No.

In My opinion, such laws are wishful thinking, hoping someone's fear of getting caught will get the best of them and stop them, with the cases of people being caught just being used as examples. One might ironically say the laws make people want them even MORE....

And Alexi, I'd personally join in the fight to keep swords (And even bear them in public legally in all places. Of course, so long as you werent doing anything stupid with it). I agree, It's the hard work of lobbies that have helped keep some of the freedoms many take for granted. I've toyed with the idea of a "knife and sword" lobby in the back of My head for a good few years ::chuckles:: The only problem is that it'd take a good while to be taken seriously, and not just some blade nuts' messing around. Also, I personally didnt know the nra fought for bladed weapons as well, though - good to know. (many thanks to Allen W for bringing that up- I personally am going to look into that in depth- I'll let you all know what I can dig up)

You'd -THINK- that law enforcement wouldnt mind citizens with blades so much ( of course, this does depend on the area somewhat) - I think of it like this, It's better a blade, then a gun. A blade is awfully hard to hit an innocent bystander across the street, with. I REALLY don't want to live to see the day theres a mass ruling that any sharpened piece of steel over 2'' long is illegal and merely possessing one is a huge felony, so I hope we can work to stop that.

I definately think licenses and permits would be a good idea, but always remember- even though It'd weed out most of the stupid people who the laws are "designed" to "catch", it couldnt get ALL of them, sadly. Though I would suggest talking to someone in your area about the laws- Some areas it isnt a felony to actually openly carry a sword or other weapon in public, Some places I believe you can even get permits to have them concealed. It can strongly depend on the area.

Oh well, Enough of this hellaciously long post, I'll wait for some comments Cool

When in doubt, bleed them out.
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Allen W





Joined: 02 Mar 2004

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Wed 17 Mar, 2004 6:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am concerned about the posts promoting licencing of sword owners. As we all seem to agree that banning only affects the legally or morally minded. this fact is equally well known to those who lobby for such laws. The cold, hard fact here is that as gun owners, edged weapon collectors, or martial artists we are broadly resented in such circles for simply existing or presuming to take responsibility for ourselves. That any damages to be done by such means are far more effectively dealt with as murder, attempted murder, or assault with a deadly weapon is clear to all and should dispell the myth of well meaning error in such legislation. the petty will only take advantage of licensing regulations to tighten requirements, induce fraudulent propaganda into the required "training", and temporarily(read indefinitely) suspend licencing when an exploitable crime is committed. I believe a couple of years ago guns were either banned or seized in France following riots in which several people were beaten to death with baseball bats.
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Allan Senefelder
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Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Mar, 2004 7:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What your talking about is incrementalism . Take a little bit with this law and a little bit with that law and next thing
you know its illegal all together and no one knows how it happened . Good intentions pave the road to hell as the
saying goes .
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Allen W





Joined: 02 Mar 2004

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Wed 17 Mar, 2004 10:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In essence yes, but I am also denying said good intentions. I belive law abiders are the genuine target in most such efforts.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Mar, 2004 12:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What I find ridiculous is banning "possessions" at home of swords . As to the carrying in public, laws already on the books covering assault or creating a public disturbance should be able to be applied when a REAL CRIME has being committed!
I guess they will have to ban everything that could substitute for a sword: Baseball bats, crowbars, big pointy sticks, 2X4s, rocks, chains and anything else you could imagine!
A large part of the motivation for this kind of legislation is a belief in the moral superiority of those who hate and fear weapons and believe that all those who find these "horrible thing" interresting must be evil or unbalanced!
These laws are never based on logic and never fix the problem they were supposed to address.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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