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Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

PostPosted: Fri 23 Nov, 2007 5:24 pm    Post subject: Pics of Parrying Daggers         Reply with quote

Hello,

I like to improve wikipedia, right now I'm trying to help the sword breaker article. In looking around at the info on these weapons on myArmoury they are put under the heading of Parrying Daggers. As the sword breaker article is quite short I want to expand it to include the trident style parrying daggers.

Problems is pics of verifiable origin. Anyone able to contribute a pic or two in accordance with wikipedias copyleft guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Stephen Hand




Location: Hobart, Australia
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Sat 24 Nov, 2007 3:09 am    Post subject: Re: Pics of Parrying Daggers         Reply with quote

Yes, that article is pretty grim, isn't it? I've used a toothed "sword breaker" and basically to break a sword with one the swordsman's wrist muscles would have to be stronger than the steel blade. In reality they are disarming devices, not sword breakers. And a standard item??? Pretty uncommon based on the few surviving examples versus the tens of thousands of ordinary daggers.

A couple of pics would help.

I must update a couple of pages on Wikipedia.

Stephen Hand
Editor, Spada, Spada II
Author of English Swordsmanship, Medieval Sword and Shield

Stoccata School of Defence
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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Posts: 1,435

PostPosted: Sat 24 Nov, 2007 9:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would say to join Citizendium instead, but it's tough getting in there. I got rejected even though I like it more than Wikipedia :|

M.

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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


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PostPosted: Sat 24 Nov, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That article is really bad. These were Renaissance items rather than medieval ones, for starters. The article it references is as bad or worse (http://medieval.stormthecastle.com/armorypages/sword-breaker.htm):

Quote:
This was an unusual weapon that was really used in the Middle ages and was often a standard sidearm for the off hand of a knight.


I'm not sure what this quote from the Wiki article refers to:

Quote:
One thing of note is that sword-breakers were not spring-loaded daggers which had sides snap out to meet the guard. These faux-historical stainless steel knives are sold in various places, but are actually a modern invention.


If they mean trident daggers, they are wrong. If they mean crazy things like popped out on the Kurgan's sword in Highlander, they're right.

Parrying daggers really should be its own article, with "sword-breakers" as a sub-category.

Happy

ChadA

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Bob Burns




Location: South Indianapolis IN
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Nov, 2007 12:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am sure glad to read Stephen Hand's post on the fact that these so called sword breaker daggers are actually only meant for and will only potentially disarm a sword and "Not" break it! Unless of course the sword is made of some kind of brittle plastic! Laughing Out Loud

Thanks Much Stephen!

Bob
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Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

PostPosted: Sun 25 Nov, 2007 7:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've made a number of improvements to the article. Take a look.

I'm open to more help in it's improvement.

But I still really want a picture or two (Nathan? please Big Grin )

Thanks,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Cincinnati, OH
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Nov, 2007 9:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's an improvement but leaves out the largest category of parrying daggers: regular-bladed ones. Tridents and "sword-breakers" were subsets and probably much less common than typical double-edged parrying daggers.
Happy

ChadA

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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 25 Nov, 2007 11:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the improvement. That old article made me shudder.

M.

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Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

PostPosted: Sun 25 Nov, 2007 12:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
That's an improvement but leaves out the largest category of parrying daggers: regular-bladed ones. Tridents and "sword-breakers" were subsets and probably much less common than typical double-edged parrying daggers.


Done.

Still need pictures. Especially of the trident since it's form is less obvious.

-Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Stephen Hand




Location: Hobart, Australia
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Sun 25 Nov, 2007 11:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Much improved - well done
Stephen Hand
Editor, Spada, Spada II
Author of English Swordsmanship, Medieval Sword and Shield

Stoccata School of Defence
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