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Norman McCormick





Joined: 17 Jan 2007

Posts: 117

PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re-enactor mortally wounded jousting.         Reply with quote

Whilst making a Living History/Reconstructive Archealogy type programme for a U.K. television company a professional re-enactor was rushed to hospital after a splinter passed through the eye slit in his helm. Unfortunately the wound proved fatal and he passed away a week after being hospitalised. This was no weekend warrior but by all accounts a seasoned member of a professional re-enacting company and I would think fully aware of the possibilities of this type of event. It is always sad when life is ended prematurely and I think this shows that even among professionals who do this for a living that serious and uncomprimising mistakes can and do happen. We must remember that the equipment we handle was designed with one purpose in mind and just because we live in the 21st century and not the 14th etc it is still very much fit for purpose and therefore we must exercise all due care and attention when displaying and demonstrating said equipment. Having said that jousting, I think, is at the extreme end of full contact combat situations and has its own inherent dangers. My condolences, of course, go to those left behind by this tragic event.
Regards,
Norman.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 1:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

His name was Paul Allen. See funeral here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M4qwPEwivA

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Hisham Gaballa





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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very tragic. My heart goes out to his family. I hope this does not put people off reenacting.
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Hugh Fuller




Location: Virginia
Joined: 01 Oct 2003

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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 2:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wasn't there a French king who died the same way?
Hugh
Still trying to walk in the Light
Please see 1 John 1:5
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hugh Fuller wrote:
Wasn't there a French king who died the same way?


Yes that would be the king that Mary Queen of Scots married François II "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_I_of_Scotland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_II_of_France#Death

But this is very sad and my condolences to the family.

Many sports have casualties like car racing or extreme versions of skiing and even taking as many reasonable precautions as possible fluke accident can and will happen ! So I don't think that the specific activity can be blamed for it.

In a way it may seem more shocking because it is something fortunately rare that a reennactor dies while jousting or other fighting activities.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think it miraculous that there are not more serious injuries in current re-inacting of jousts. Equestrian sports tend to be pretty tough on serious riders (a high percentage of the Eventers and Rodeo competitors I know have had some pretty serious injuries), and we have lots of examples of former presidents, actors, etc. that get seriously injured every few years. Add to this the burden of armor and semi-realistic lance like objects.... I think the re-enactors deserve a lot of praise for their relatively good track record.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Felix Wang




Location: Fresno, CA
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A very sad event, indeed. This was not easily preventable, as the death of Henri II showed. All in all, modern jousters seem to have had an excellent safety record.
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Allan Senefelder
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Location: Upstate NY
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is truely unfortunate. It must have been horrific, condolences to his family. It is not the first modern occurance, about 14 or 15 years back, a member of the jousting company that did the renfaire we used to have a booth at had exactly this happen. He was fortunate enough to have the shard pass under the eye so in the end he was left with both his vision and a nasty scar.
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David Lohnes




Location: Greenville, South Carolina
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow. That had to have been horrible.
Very sad.

Just out of curiosity, do reenactors of the joust typically wear any kind of eye protection under their helmets?
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Gavin Kisebach




Location: Lacey, Wa US
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I suppose it is cold comfort to say that he died doing what he loved. From the video he not only loved his job, it but made a lot of friends, and undoubtedly spread the love of history to young minds as well...
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Torsten F.H. Wilke




Location: Irvine Spectrum, CA
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 9:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does anyone know what type of harness/ helm combination he was wearing at the time of that most unfortunate incident?
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 10:57 pm    Post subject: Similar incident         Reply with quote

Is it possible that this happened more than once? As Jean said, Henry II of France was subjected to the same fate in 1559. My heart goes out to the friends and family.
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Troy G L Williams




Location: Moody, Texas
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 11:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A very unfortunate accident. I wish to pass my condolences to the family.
v/r,
Troy Williams

"It’s merely a flesh wound." -Monty Python and the Holy Grail
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Jonathan Blair




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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 4:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I offer my condolences to Mr. Allen's family.
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - The Lord Jesus Christ, from The Gospel According to Saint Matthew, chapter x, verse 34, Authorized Version of 1611
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 6:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Living over on this side of the pond I heard about this a few weeks ago but did not know the particulars of that it was on You Tube so I did not put up a post. .

It is good he lived doing what he loved. Many cannot say that.

I also wish to pass along my condolences to the family and to his many friends.

RPM
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Peter Bosman




Location: Andalucia
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 6:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Me and my son enjoy watching the videos of jousting on youtube every now and then and it báffles me completely that there ´only´ so few serious accidents. The clashes are só violent at times and it take QUITE a blow to shatter a lance.
The people making a living this way éarn their living.
This freak accident puts the message of mortality accross.

It is a bit like bullfighting. Nobody wánts the guy to get hurt but it still is part of the spectacle.

Tough on the family because however aware you think you are one never is truely prepaired for a permanent loss.
Imagine the guy on the other end of the stick too. Pfffffffffffff.

peter
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Lloyd Clark




Location: Beaver Dam, WI
Joined: 08 Sep 2004

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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 6:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Accidents of this magnitude are rare and this is the first casualty that has occurred in "modern" jousting.

I have always told my students that when, not if, they get seriously hurt and then return to jousting, only then can they truly understand what jousting is all about and how dangerous it can be.

I did not know Peter, however, all jousters are family and the loss of any one of us is felt by all.

My most sincere condolences to his wife, family, and his brother and sister reenactors.

Cheers,

Lloyd Clark
2000 World Jousting Champion
2004 World Jousting Bronze Medalist
Swordmaster
Super Proud Husband and Father!
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Peter Bosman




Location: Andalucia
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 7:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lloyd Clark wrote:
I have always told my students that when, not if, they get seriously hurt and then return to jousting, only then can they truly understand what jousting is all about and how dangerous it can be.


Like riding a horse, like racing a motorcycle, only more so.
There is no substitute for experiencing the limit. Very occasionally someone dies. I lost my wife in roadracing accident; nó way you are prepaired for this actually happening even though I have several replacement parts myself.

My respect for and good luck to all performers with potentialy lethal ´live´arms..

peter
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I also feel bad for the Time Team folks, for whom this joust was arranged. It's a fantastic series--real archaeology rather than the shallow, sensationalist stuff seen on the History Channel, et al. in the US. The crew is always so careful to respect the lives of the people whose lives they reveal. I know they're all just sick about this accident.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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George Davidson




Location: Glasgow Scotland
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not much comfort but I read that the health and safety people gave Time Team a clean bill of health - there had been no shortcuts taken on the safety front and this was simply an accident with the balsa wood lances.
It is always a surprise how few people are badly hurt in re-enactment in comparison to other 'safer' hobbies/sports.
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