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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2007 1:05 am    Post subject: Photos of Ahlspiess wanted - Updated with pix of the repro.         Reply with quote

Going to make an Ahlspiess soon and digging for museum/collection photos of the wonderful Ahlspiess. These ive found so far but im interested in getting some with high resolution for more "forging details".


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Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.


Last edited by W. Schütz on Fri 26 Oct, 2007 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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James Barker




Location: Ashburn VA
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2007 6:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some I took:



Base of an axe next to it:


James Barker
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W. Schütz
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct, 2007 11:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks alot. I sure love the simpler weapons.
Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Oct, 2007 6:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Photo of the ahlspiess i made;


Done in four hectic workdays to try and get a feel for pre-war massproduction..

The other pix can be seen here http://allmoge.blogspot.com/ at higher resolution.

Parden for the photo quality, my camera is not too good.

Cheers!

Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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James Barker




Location: Ashburn VA
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Posts: 365

PostPosted: Mon 29 Oct, 2007 8:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Your ahlspiess reproduction looks really nice; I would hate for that to stick me
James Barker
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Archer in La Belle Compagnie http://www.labelle.org/
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 29 Oct, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great work! Your whole kit looks good, judging by the Olofsgillet photos in your other album!

This is late, but I thought you'd still want to see it:



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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Jean Henri Chandler




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PostPosted: Mon 29 Oct, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great Ahlspiess, I'd love to see more photos, close up perhaps?

I think much of the confusion in the west is over the name, usually translated as "awl-pike" which means most people think it's a form of pike, in the sense of being 18' long, which is a formation weapon most people don't consider a personal weapon you might associate with say, a Ren Faire persona or a D&D character or something. How would you fit in your minivan? Wink


I think it's a very interesting and seemingly effective weapon, I've been waiting to see more reproductions of them. I wonder if it's a progression from the Pilum, to the Angon (which the Franks seemed to use as both a thrusting spear and a throwing spear instead of a pure javelin as it basically was for the Romans) to the ahlespiess.


thanks for posting that, very nice weapon.

J

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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2007 6:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the pic Sean (never too late) and the comments..

Here are some more pictures and the first one in higher resolution;

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p19/De-Pro...piess2.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p19/De-Pro...piess3.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p19/De-Pro...piess1.jpg

I dont think 'Awl-pike' is a very good translation, since its obviously an infantery spear of quite avarage length, not to be use in a phalanx-formation but as a spear exclusivly dedicated for thrusting to combat armoured opponents.
The one i made is ca 230cm long and weighs 1,8kg, its balance is 15cm down from the rondel which gives it a good balance when held with two hands in say a low guard, with still some weight forward for the thurst.
The spear i made i wanted to fit a simple soldier, a munitions-grade weapon. So i gave myself a timelimit, four days, to do it in, to try and get some of these imperfections that you have a hard time accepting if you work it merely as a peice of art, but that i think are important to approach the feel of the time. So its not a forging-masterpeice but im pleased with the resault.
Its made fully by hand exept the basic sledging done with spring-hammer. Tool-steel 0,6%carb, hardened, tempered and handground.
The shaft is Red-beech, a type of wood found where these weapons where made originally.

Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2007 7:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's something else that might interest you. Waldman distinguishes between this short type and the longer versions like yours. I believe he refers to these as candeliere or something similar. The name is the same as the long, wood-hafted candles used in Europe at the time. Dürer depicts one of those candles in one of his woodcuts (with a spiral-turned haft) So, there's a bit of an infantryman's joke in calling those shorter weapons "candles". With the spiral reinforcing band(?) the weapon shown below does closely resemble the candle in the Dürer woodcut.


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ahlspiess.jpg


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2007 7:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

More. These are from this wonderful site:

http://www.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/realonline/

Simply choose "Materielle Objekte" from the drop-down menu, set the date range and search the alphabetical list for whatever you want (you have to know the German term for what you want to find, of course):



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ahl3.jpg


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ive heard of the term candeliere but i think its a word that describes the 14th cen predecessor to the awl-spear, which has a shorter, thicker and round spike, just like the candlestick of the time had a disc and a round spike where you put the candle. To me the spears carried in the wonderful picture you posted might be awl-spears just with more spike and less shaft, and with spiral langettes. But they do look quite different then the normal simple Awlspear so to call them 'candle-spears' would not be an unnecessary distincion perhapse. These spiral langettes are also found on some staff-swords i recall..
Ive also read somewhere that Awl-spears without the rondel are called 'Breach pikes', but i dont see the need for distinction just because of the rondel being there or not.



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doln.JPG


Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2007 11:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does anyone have a photo of a Candeliere-original perhapse? I would very much like to try and reproduce one of them.
Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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David Black Mastro




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PostPosted: Sun 04 Nov, 2007 6:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

W. Schütz wrote:


I dont think 'Awl-pike' is a very good translation, since its obviously an infantery spear of quite avarage length, not to be use in a phalanx-formation but as a spear exclusivly dedicated for thrusting to combat armoured opponents.



"Awl-pike" is merely an English phonetic rendering of ahlspiess (compare it with "slaughter-sword", derived from schlachtschwerter). AFAIK, the literal translation of ahlspiess is "eel-spear", which is probably a reference to the weapon's long and narrow spearhead.

"Why meddle with us--you are not strong enough to break us--you know that you have won the battle and slaughtered our army--be content with your honor, and leave us alone, for by God's good will only have we escaped from this business" --unknown Spanish captain to the Chevalier Bayard, at the Battle of Ravenna, 1512
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Daria Estel




Location: Moscow
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PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov, 2007 5:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think you won't be against if I use image of your ahlspike in my school project work?
Thank you for the photo. It's really great work.
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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov, 2007 5:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No i think i will not be against that..;/
Thank you for the comments.

Semantics; its not the word "awl" im against, its "pike", since its a spear..

Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Johan S. Moen




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PostPosted: Sat 17 Nov, 2007 7:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Black Mastro wrote:

"Awl-pike" is merely an English phonetic rendering of ahlspiess (compare it with "slaughter-sword", derived from schlachtschwerter). AFAIK, the literal translation of ahlspiess is "eel-spear", which is probably a reference to the weapon's long and narrow spearhead.


Would that be a translation of an older spelling variant? I'm asking since "eel" is written as "aal" in modern german, not "ahl".

Johan Schubert Moen
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Danny Grigg





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PostPosted: Sun 18 Nov, 2007 12:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Found this the other day

http://www.masterarmourer.com/antiques_for_sale.htm

Enjoy

Danny
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Jim Z




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PostPosted: Fri 03 Apr, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Ahlspiess construction/dimensions         Reply with quote

For all who have seen the originals, can anyone tell me what the socket /langet construction is like in terms of assembly and dimensions? What is the diameter of the shaft socket and is the socket actually a socket or just a couple of rounded langets welded to a square spike? What is the dimension of the spike? Thanks!
Jim Z
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