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David White




Location: Stanardsville VA
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PostPosted: Tue 26 Aug, 2003 9:10 am    Post subject: Albion's LaTene II         Reply with quote

Can any of the folks at Albion give me their impressions of the LaTene II.

What historical example of the pommel was used? Or was it a combination of several examples?

I thought that the pommels generally had more rounded lobes.

I have to admit I like the leather wrapping
better than the bone grip.

Thanks folks! I've always like that sword.

dave
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Howard Waddell
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug, 2003 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Albions LaTene II         Reply with quote

David White wrote:
Can any of the folks at Albion give me their impressions of the LaTene II.
What historical example of the pommel was used? Or was it a combination of several examples?
I thought that the pommels generally had more rounded lobes.
I have to admit I like the leather wrapping
better than the bone grip.
Thanks folks! I've always like that sword.
dave


Thanks, Dave!

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply -- I've been having trouble on my end getting the reply page to come up.

The La Tene II blade we currently carry was based on research done by Steven Peffly, but the hilt components were an evolution from research done by staff here. The La Tene hilt components are mostly guess work, as they seem to have been as a rule organic and nothing survives but the interpretation you can make from the guard and pommel plates that do survive.

Our previous version had the more rounded lobes on the pommel, but we felt that the pointier look was still within the realm of possibility, based on the shape of the existing pommel plates.

At some point, we'll be coming out with a next generation based on Peter's research, but I'll leave that for Peter to describe when he has time.

Thanks again for the kind words!

Best,

Howy
http://albionarmorers.com
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David White




Location: Stanardsville VA
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug, 2003 11:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Howy-

Thanks for the reply. I was really wondering about the pommel shape and your answer helped alot.
It is one of my favorites, no doubt.

thanks,

dave
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Nathan Bell





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PostPosted: Thu 28 Aug, 2003 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Albions LaTene II         Reply with quote

Quote:
At some point, we'll be coming out with a next generation based on Peter's research, but I'll leave that for Peter to describe when he has time.


I would like to hear about this one. Especially when it's coming out, or maybe pre-orders Wink

Seriously, I would love to hear about both research and the new model coming out.

N
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David White




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PostPosted: Thu 28 Aug, 2003 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes me too! Keep us informed please.

dave
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Darwin Todd





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PostPosted: Fri 05 Sep, 2003 5:51 pm    Post subject: Count me in!         Reply with quote

I for one would love to see a variety of historically accurate LaTene swords (and spears too for that matter!) on the market. I have yet to see a replica that has the more tapering points that some antiques have.
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2003 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: Count me in!         Reply with quote

Darwin Todd wrote:
I for one would love to see a variety of historically accurate LaTene swords (and spears too for that matter!) on the market. I have yet to see a replica that has the more tapering points that some antiques have.


I have had my eyes open for La Tène swords these last few years. I have photographed many, handeled a few and have documented at least one complete example.
Last spring I documented a nice one (in the Deutshes Klingenmuseum) that has double fullers and narrow flat edge bevels. This is a type of blade that is very graceful with an interesting dynamic shape. They come in different sizes. The one I documented in Germany was small and very slim. The blade was very well preserved and had a complete and perfect scabbard of iron. Beautiful.
One feature that is seen on many blades regardless of what type of cross section they may have is a peculiar narrowing of the width in the point area. It is like a secondary profile taper in the last fourth of the blade, making for a point section that is very characteristic and "celtic"-looking. They may end in a point that is rather acute.
I would like to see in production one blade with the more complex double fullered section with flat edge bevels and one that has a plain diamond section, or maby very subtly hollow ground from spine all the way to the edge. The blades should be between 65-75 cm long, around 45-47 milimeter wide at the hilt, weighing around 700 grams (or less).
As to hilts, not many have survived. Very few traces tell what the hilts looked like. The variation was greater that is often seen in modern reconstructions, where the kidneyshaped upper and lower guards are predominant. There are other forms possible. I think it would be good to produce one hilt that is a good representation of the common kidney shaped guards and one hilt of a less common type. One interesting find from France has bronze reinforcements that show that the shape of the pommel was bean shaped (or like a door knob if made fully round). I like this variation. It is somewhere halfway towards a roman spatha in style.
Something that is very commonly misunderstood in modern reproductions is the shape of the wavy mount of the lower guard. I want to see this made in steel or bronze so its shape flows smoothly from the wood of the guard to the metal of the mount. It is a very three dimensional effect that is dificult to describe and tricky to produce.
(A similar problem is seen on many modern reproiductions of the medieval ballock dagger. The transition between the curved mount and the lower end of the hilt seems to cause many makers problems.)
The grip of these swords can be made from wood, horn, bone or bronze. I like the thought of hollow bronze grips that has nicely modeled risers.
Imagine a hilt made with bronze rivet washer (Like a crescent band crowning the pommel), bronze grip and lower guard mount of bronze or steel. It would contrast nicely to upper and lower guard of oiled and polished walnut.
If possile I would like to see a proper iron or bronze sheet metal scabbards with investment cast reinforcements and etched celtic swirls. Perhaps even a sword belt of iron links? A scabbard like this is truly magnificent, but would be very coslty to produce.
The celtic sword is awe inspiring. I like them more the more I learn about them. There are many variatons possible in size and shape. They are far from being so uniform as one might think when seeing modern representations.
They are often surprisingly light, but can also have rather big dimensions. I would think a typical weight of a complete sword of healthy dimensons would be slightly less than a kilo.

Then we have the swords of the Iberian peninsula....falcatas...antennae-swords...oh my.
Did you know there were falcata shaped chopping knives or short swords already during the bronze age in Spain? I saw one interesting example in the archaeological museum in Barcelona recently. I always heard that the falcata sword was an import via greek or etruscan traders/mercenaries. Could that have hapened already during bronze age times, or is the shape a spanish original?
Any one with thoughts on this?
I might as well post this as a separate thread...[/i]
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Shane Allee
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2003 9:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had a nice long post typed out, but I guess that while typing it I ran out of time and it logged me out of the forum. So it is gone.... Anyway..

Peter it sounds as if you are in better shape than most of us here in the US. Most of us here are forced to try and find rare out of print books that cost a small fortune and look for little details in people personal museum photos.

The bronze hilted sword with the rings you described, would be be like the dagger on display in the British Museum?

Also, have any of the swords you have had the opportunity to see had the small spherical pommels? If so, did you notice if they were recessed on the grip side? I have some photos of an original blade that features a bronze spherical pommel which is and Nate and myself haven't been able to come to a conclusion as to weather or not it has been added later or if it is original.

Someone really needs to do a book on the wonderful single edge blades of the ancient world, they come in all shape and sizes but are almost always overlooked.

Shane
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2003 10:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter,

You've started a very interesting discussion here. Would you mind starting a new thread devoted specifically to this on the Historical Arms forum?


Last edited by Patrick Kelly on Mon 08 Sep, 2003 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shane Allee
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2003 10:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is the picture of the dagger from the British Museum. Nate sent me the picture so I'm not sure who to give credit to for it, if I need to take it down let me know.


 Attachment: 40.68 KB
britishdagger.jpg

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