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Joshua Hemingway





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PostPosted: Fri 27 Feb, 2004 1:32 pm    Post subject: New Musuem Line Swords; MS1313, MS1401 and the MS1501         Reply with quote

I would like to anounce the first three of the reworked Musuem Line of swords.

As a proud sponsor of Sword Forum International, All Saints brings you the Museum line designed by Adrian Ko.

This line features some of the best handling, looking and feeling swords from Angus Trim. The hilt work is all individually hand done; Fittings come in True Black, Hand Antiqe Black, and a deep hand Plum Browning. Handles are individually wrapped in many combinations of fine cording with accents under leather in hand died; Black, Dark Oxblood or English Brown.

The all new MS1313:



The ReworkedMS1401:



Lastly the Old but New EKS:


J. Hemingway
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Robert Busch





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PostPosted: Sat 28 Feb, 2004 6:51 am    Post subject: Good stuff there Josh!         Reply with quote

Hi Josh,

Just wanted to let you know that the MS1313 looks truly spectacular. I always liked the AT1313, but the longer grip looks better to me, and will make an already quick sword scream even louder. The grip looks good too, a bit thinner, and I really dig the two bands at the grip's center. Things are just getting better and better for us sword junkies....

Bob
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 09 Mar, 2004 6:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are the blades on the new museum line stores more polished and better finished than the standard lines? Or are the changes only on the hilt components and grip wraps?
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Joshua Hemingway





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PostPosted: Tue 09 Mar, 2004 6:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just hilts.

Gus always works to improve but we don't polish. (edit, sorry ment to be funny, not offend)

J. Hemingway
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Last edited by Joshua Hemingway on Wed 10 Mar, 2004 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 09 Mar, 2004 11:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joshua Hemingway wrote:
Just hilts.

Gus always works to improve but we don't polish. Will when we hire that migrant worker at $3.00 an hour.. oops I just say that? Eek! Big Grin Razz


I know you're joking and everything, but blade polishing seems to me to be an integral part of authentic sword making. Always has been... I think there might be a few makers out there now days that might take offfense to being compared to a migrant worker Razz Laughing Out Loud

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Angus Trim




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 8:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Joshua Hemingway wrote:
Just hilts.

Gus always works to improve but we don't polish. Will when we hire that migrant worker at $3.00 an hour.. oops I just say that? Eek! Big Grin Razz


I know you're joking and everything, but blade polishing seems to me to be an integral part of authentic sword making. Always has been... I think there might be a few makers out there now days that might take offfense to being compared to a migrant worker Razz Laughing Out Loud


Hi Nathan

Just to make a point, finishes today are much nicer overall than you're going to find in most antiques. I've seen quite a few antiques now, and I haven't seen one that has nicer main bevel finishes than what I do. I can't recall seeing nicer finished fullers than I do, though I suppose its possible.........

The finishes have improved in the last year, and will continue to improve. But polishing to a mirror like finish, or even a semi-mirror finish requires time, and time ain't cheap. To do it right, give the kind of polish you see on Tinker's work for instance, you'd likely add another $150 to the price.

That's not a price range I really want to enter.

thanks Nathan for your concern

Auld Dawg

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 8:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Angus Trim wrote:
thanks Nathan for your concern

Concern? I just asked a simple question about your new line and the features it has, spurred by an excitement that you were moving into a higher-end product.

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Joshua Hemingway





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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 10:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Joshua Hemingway wrote:
Just hilts.

Gus always works to improve but we don't polish. Will when we hire that migrant worker at $3.00 an hour.. oops I just say that? Eek! Big Grin Razz


I know you're joking and everything, but blade polishing seems to me to be an integral part of authentic sword making. Always has been... I think there might be a few makers out there now days that might take offfense to being compared to a migrant worker Razz Laughing Out Loud


Authintic sword making? Well we don't do that, never have so it's a nonissue for us; CNC machines, Mills, Belt Sanders, Pommel threads, Stainless Steel ect so not sure how polishing a blade is a "always has been" issue.

To do what you want and every one who chimes in with "make armour" "have you ever thought abought this?" we would have to hire some one and charge into the $800-$1000+ sword market. A&A and Albion (lets not mention all the custom guys or smaller shopps) already exist there so why in the world would we want to!

Our most expensive non-compound hilt sword is well under $600.00, $560.00 to be exact. We don't need or want to get any higher than that, polishing that we have never done would shove us right up.

As for comparing Sword makers to migrant workers; I know Gus wishes some times he made as much as some apple pickers in Eastern Washington, probly less work than he dose now!

J. Hemingway
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 10:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joshua Hemingway wrote:
To do what you want and every one who chimes in with "make armour" "have you ever thought abought this?" we would have to hire some one and charge into the $800-$1000+ sword market. A&A and Albion (lets not mention all the custom guys or smaller shopps) already exist there so why in the world would we want to!


I don't understand your comment about "make armour" but whatever.. what do you mean, "to do what I want?" I didn't say *I* wanted anything in this topic. I'm not expressing wants. I asked if your blade finish was upgraded. I was excited about your new product line...

Your products work extremely well for your niche and audience and I do not believe they need to be changed! You have a unique niche and I'd strongly suggest continuing to cater to it! Your products are well-reviewed (with more coming) and I am a big supporter of them! What else needs to be said other than a boat-load of them sell each month? That says it right there: good product, happy customers.

And, for the record, so that we don't confuse newcomers to the sword collecting market:

Albion's $500 Hastings, $525 Stamford, and $550 Agincourt all have nicely polished satin-finished blades. So does A&A's $470 Urbino, $470 Henry V, $540 German Branch Sword, etc. etc. Euro makers like Armour Class and Lutel also have some very nicely finished blades, as does Del Tin, at good price points.

But let's not be so adamant about stating that a finer finished blade cannot be obtained at a sub-$800 price point. It's being done already.

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Allan Senefelder
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 10:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The armour comment reffered to was from another thread where some one ( i believe the fellow was french from
the name ) wanted to know if Gus would make armour and when he responded no the question was asked
about getting some one to do it with/for him .
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 10:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anyway. To try to get this on-topic again, look at this cool grip wrap:


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Robert Zamoida




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 12:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Anyway. To try to get this on-topic again, look at this cool grip wrap:



I agree, it's very nice! And the wrap for the MS1313 is very nice too.

Rob Zamoida
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Geoff Wood




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 3:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
[

Albion's $500 Hastings, $525 Stamford, and $550 Agincourt all have nicely polished satin-finished blades. So does A&A's $470 Urbino, $470 Henry V, $540 German Branch Sword, etc. etc. Euro makers like Armour Class and Lutel also have some very nicely finished blades, as does Del Tin, at good price points.

But let's not be so adamant about stating that a finer finished blade cannot be obtained at a sub-$800 price point. It's being done already.


Hi Nathan
Just to chip in, don't you think that some of your comparisons here are a bit apples and oranges? Both Lutel and Armour class swords that I own came with more of a polish than the Atrims. However, neither cuts as well and they do have other points of compromise (e.g. weight, symmetry etc.). The lutels almost certainly have lower labour costs and the Armour Class are made in (for UK customers at least) a tax favourable envirnment which allows them to keep their asking prices lower.
Geoff
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 4:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's another beautiful wrap!
Now what I would like to see is a picture of the Plum Brown fitiings with a black grip; I really like that effect.


Rob Zamoida
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 4:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Geoff Wood wrote:
Nathan Robinson wrote:
[

Albion's $500 Hastings, $525 Stamford, and $550 Agincourt all have nicely polished satin-finished blades. So does A&A's $470 Urbino, $470 Henry V, $540 German Branch Sword, etc. etc. Euro makers like Armour Class and Lutel also have some very nicely finished blades, as does Del Tin, at good price points.

But let's not be so adamant about stating that a finer finished blade cannot be obtained at a sub-$800 price point. It's being done already.


Hi Nathan
Just to chip in, don't you think that some of your comparisons here are a bit apples and oranges? Both Lutel and Armour class swords that I own came with more of a polish than the Atrims. However, neither cuts as well and they do have other points of compromise (e.g. weight, symmetry etc.). The lutels almost certainly have lower labour costs and the Armour Class are made in (for UK customers at least) a tax favourable envirnment which allows them to keep their asking prices lower.
Geoff


I tried to get this back on-topic, hence me saying "Let's get this back on topic" .. but oh well.

I think the point was made rather well, Geoff. But if you insist, you must note that the Armour Class and Lutel products are both substantially less expensive than the American guys.. as can be expected. So yes, of course the products, as a whole, are apples and oranges.

But let's not forget that the entire point of this conversation was about blade finish, and so I very carefully wrapped my "comparisons" in that context. .Being that they're wrapped in the same context, they are "apples to apples".

A&A and Albion have been producing pieces with a very, very nice blade finish for many years now without the points of compromise that you mention.

My Lutels cut every bit as good as the two Atrims I have here... mileage obviously varies. Wait. Where did cutting come into this conversation? I thought I asked if blades were polished and we go down this road? Sigh. I'm disappointed. I think it's a valid point to compare aspects of products if wrapped in the right context and understood that everything compares to price point.

Why doesn't anybody bitch when somebody says "My Arms & Armor sword cuts better than my Museum Replicas sword"? Of course it does.. it costs three times the price. But if I dare say, "My Museum Replicas sword has a better blade finish and cleaner lines than my Atrim" people get defensive. That's crap. Things are what they are. As you're pointing out, there's lots of variables that go into a sword. Everybody has to make concessions. But I would hope that each maker would be pragmatic enough not to get defensive and sensitive about it when the issue comes up.

I'm a Web developer by trade. In my career, I've made some extremely nice Web sites for fortune 500 companies with large budgets that were able to pay for the end product. Likewise, I've made some crappy sites for little companies that were full of concessions due to budgetary constraints. When the two sites would be compared, it would be inevitable for somebody to look at the lower-end product and find its shortcomings. Would I be sensitive to it? No. The answer is always this: The client got what his budget allowed. I feel that my pricing is competitive and am always comfortable with my offerings at any given budget. I never create things at such a low-budget that I might be embarrassed by the end product. Hence, I'm not defensive about it. 'nuff said.

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Geoff Wood




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 10:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:


I tried to get this back on-topic, hence me saying "Let's get this back on topic" .. but oh well.


Nathan
Please accept my apologies for causing annoyance, bitching etc.
Geoff.
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Joshua Hemingway





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PostPosted: Wed 10 Mar, 2004 10:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Geoff, don't apologize, not your fault.

I jumped on Nathan unwarranted and chewed on his leg. We have talked via phone and for the most part I prejudged him and went off on a tangent that did him nor this thread any justice.

We have new stuff to show some spark in hilting, finish is the same. For now we can't get them to a polish but we can get them better. We don't want polish but we do want better. We have a great spot for utilitarian use and are bringing some good looks into it.

The title on the site is; Swords for the Western Marital Artist. We want things folks can use, clean and maintain at home with out undo refinishing. Itís a good market to be in.

J. Hemingway
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PostPosted: Fri 12 Mar, 2004 12:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the pix Josh! I really like the cording on the grips! It really makes the swords "pop". Cool

As far as the finish goes--I like it! On my FMLB, the "wavering lines" from the grinding and finishing reminds me of rippling water. Very cool! Almost like multiple hamons--not that I'm comparing Gus' work to kabbage kutters. Wink

"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." ~A. Maslow
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