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Max von Bargen




Location: Stanford, CA
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 144

PostPosted: Thu 27 Sep, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: Modern Books on German Medieval Swordsmanship         Reply with quote

I own Christian Henry Tobler's Fighting with the German Longsword and I have been looking into some other books, such as his Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship. I was wondering, what does this book, or Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Art of the Longsword add to what was presented in Fighting with the German Longsword?

Thanks!
Max
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Hugh Knight




Location: San Bernardino, CA
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Reading list: 34 books

Posts: 739

PostPosted: Thu 27 Sep, 2007 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Modern Books on German Medieval Swordsmanship         Reply with quote

Max von Bargen wrote:
I own Christian Henry Tobler's Fighting with the German Longsword and I have been looking into some other books, such as his Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship. I was wondering, what does this book, or Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Art of the Longsword add to what was presented in Fighting with the German Longsword?


I know I'm going to get beaten up for this, but I can't help it. That book is rife with errors, not the least of which is that when the author wrote it he went by an incomplete transcription of Ringeck's book that was on the internet that covered only the unarmored material. Because he didn't know the transcription was incomplete he mistakenly assumed that the techniques therein were intended for both unarmored and armored sword combat and this colors several of his interpretations. Lindholm learned of his error because he subsequently published another book containing armored techniques but, again, didn't compare his work with other primary sources (e.g., von Danzig) and as a result, many of the plays therein are flawed as well since many of these techniques are really best interpreted using what Sydney Anglo calls a "dossier approach" by comparing several books together to see all the issues.

Christian's earlier book, Secrets, is a *superb* translation, but must be considered somewhat dated at this point. Christian himself admits that many of the plays therein are incorrectly interpreted, and for that reason I never suggest that book for beginners. Once someone has advanced enough to really understand the material, however, Secrets is a tremendous resource for exploring the system as a whole. For a beginner, Fighting With the German Longsword is the very best and most useful resource in general publication, hands down.

Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
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Derek Wassom




Location: Fribourg, Switzerland
Joined: 25 Feb 2004

Posts: 96

PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep, 2007 5:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I find Knightly Art of the Longsword much easier to follow then Toblerís book. I disagree with some of the interpretations in both books, but side-by-side they make a great resource for longsword study.
Regards,
Derek Wassom
Luegisland Scholar
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Randall Pleasant




Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Joined: 24 Aug 2003

Posts: 333

PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Modern Books on German Medieval Swordsmanship         Reply with quote

Max

I like and use both Tobler's book and Lindholm' book. However, I use the books primarily for their translation of Ringeck. Like Derek, there are interpretations in both books that I disagree with. I make almost no use of the pictures and images of either book. Instead, I study the images of Goliath and Meyer.

Ran Pleasant
ARMA DFW
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