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Robert T.





Joined: 15 Sep 2007

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PostPosted: Sun 16 Sep, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: The best smallsword?         Reply with quote

I have been wanting to get a small sword for some time now, but I obviously don't want something too heavy, too long, out of proportion, etc. What smallsword on the market now can offer the closest feel tot the original style?
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 16 Sep, 2007 5:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Robert-

Welcome to myArmoury.com!

I don't know which is the best on the market, but let me steer you to these reviews in case you have not yet seen them:


Del Tin 5181 Smallsword

A hands-on review by Bill Grandy


Cold Steel Smallsword

A hands-on review by Bill Grandy


Arms & Armor Smallsword

Reviewed by Stephen Fisher


Arms & Armor English Loop-hilt Smallsword

A hands-on review by Stephen Fisher


G. Gedney Godwin Smallsword

Reviewed by Stephen Fisher

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Robert T.





Joined: 15 Sep 2007

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PostPosted: Sun 16 Sep, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

well i would love to order the arms and armor model, since it seems to be the closest to an exact replica, without the looping at the top and whatnot, but $850? I may have to save my pennies lol. Actually the other arms and armor model, with the finger loops, seems to be an interstingly desirable blade as well, and at a little kinder price.
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Sun 16 Sep, 2007 5:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert T. wrote:
well i would love to order the arms and armory model, since it seems to be the closest to an exact replica, without the loop hilt and whatnot, but $850? I may have to save my pennies lol.


Their basic (non-custom) small sword is only $440.
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Robert T.





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PostPosted: Sun 16 Sep, 2007 5:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Hopkins wrote:
Robert T. wrote:
well i would love to order the arms and armory model, since it seems to be the closest to an exact replica, without the loop hilt and whatnot, but $850? I may have to save my pennies lol.


Their basic (non-custom) small sword is only $440.


Only $440? haha, I am a collector, but that doesn't mean I make enough money for the extremely nice pieces that I dream about. Oh well, I may get that thing anyway.
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Sun 16 Sep, 2007 6:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert T. wrote:
Jonathan Hopkins wrote:
Robert T. wrote:
well i would love to order the arms and armory model, since it seems to be the closest to an exact replica, without the loop hilt and whatnot, but $850? I may have to save my pennies lol.


Their basic (non-custom) small sword is only $440.


Only $440? haha, I am a collector, but that doesn't mean I make enough money for the extremely nice pieces that I dream about. Oh well, I may get that thing anyway.


I was just trying to put a positive spin on it. Happy And relative to $850, "only $440" seemed an apt description.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 16 Sep, 2007 6:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Getting the "best" on a budget isn't possible.

Getting the best for the buck is another question...

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Edward Hitchens




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PostPosted: Sun 16 Sep, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can honestly say that there was a time when $440 was a lot of money to spend on a sword, even for a high-quality one... Confused

Anyway, Robert, I do know of a maker called Rogue Steel that makes rapiers and smallswords for stage and film. I think Paul Chen makes one too that isn't too expensive.

"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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Robert T.





Joined: 15 Sep 2007

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun 16 Sep, 2007 8:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Hopkins wrote:
Robert T. wrote:
Jonathan Hopkins wrote:
Robert T. wrote:
well i would love to order the arms and armory model, since it seems to be the closest to an exact replica, without the loop hilt and whatnot, but $850? I may have to save my pennies lol.


Their basic (non-custom) small sword is only $440.


Only $440? haha, I am a collector, but that doesn't mean I make enough money for the extremely nice pieces that I dream about. Oh well, I may get that thing anyway.


I was just trying to put a positive spin on it. Happy And relative to $850, "only $440" seemed an apt description.


true, very true. I will buy expensive model eventually, but for now, thank you for the options. Cool
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
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PostPosted: Sun 16 Sep, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had stumbled on this site one day. I know nothing about the product, other than it looks good for the price. A couple of interesting looking smallsword options.

http://www.dkiempire.com/Secure/smilingfox/index.asp

Cheers

GC
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Hugh Fuller




Location: Virginia
Joined: 01 Oct 2003

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PostPosted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 8:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You may wish to look at the French Officer's Epee or Straight Sword at http://www.militaryheritage.com/swords1.htm
I think that it is quite handsome, very distinctive, and it is reasonably priced.

Another option is the G. Gedney Godwin Colichemarde Smallsword which I find to be a very nice sword for the money and certainly distinctive.

Hugh
Still trying to walk in the Light
Please see 1 John 1:5
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J. Erb




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, since we're discussing one of my favorite types of sword, I felt compelled to chime in. I have not yet, unfortunately, had the chance to handle a smallsword of any kind, and my current budget restricts me to window-shopping. Judging from the reviews on this most excellent site, the Arms & Armor and Godwin smallswords seem to be the best, most accurate ones available. (And A&A recently unveiled a Silvered Smallsword that I'm practically salivating over...) $400 is hardly cheap, I know, but is still quite a bit less than the other swords offered by Arms & Armor.

Some other sites were mentioned, but personally I thought their smallsword offerings -- and those on the few other sites I've managed to find during the past year or so -- looked rather sad. To my thinking, Why spend $250 for a comparatively shoddy sword when a bit more saving will get you an item of almost guaranteed quality?

But that's just me rambling and being snobby about my future sword purchases; I know I've got quite a few more pennies to save first! Wink Best of luck in your decision!

"What greater weapon is there than to turn an enemy to your cause, to use their own knowledge against them?"
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Robert T.





Joined: 15 Sep 2007

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PostPosted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

well I find the Godwin and both Arms and Armor smallswords to be the best buys for their price range without actually buying an antique. As much as I wan tthe arms and armor models, I will most likely end up buying the Godwin model, which is still rather attractive, and with the colichemarde blade, I think it will be a fine buy for my first smallsword. But before that, I am buying my mortuary hilt english half-basket.
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Bob Burns




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PostPosted: Tue 18 Sep, 2007 6:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Robert, yep the fine stuff does cost and I too am of limited financial means, however I did put together a rather large collection by sacrificing a lot of things. Although, it is true that when I embarked on putting my collection together in the late summer of 2005, I had the unusual fortune (for the luck in my life Laughing Out Loud ) to have several thousand come my way, which provided for one big "kick start"!
Outside of this bit of luck, I did sacrifice a lot, no more restaurants, going to movies, kept and maintained my 89 Ford
beater van that runs very good, no auto payments and low insurance premiums. Narrowed down my grocery bill, any way you could imagine, I either went without or put limits wherever I could. Result: 9 swords, 1 rapier, 11 polearms, 4 daggers, 2 bucklers from Arms & Armor, 2 swords from Albion and some swords, polearms and daggers from the midrange area, namely Hanwei and Windlass.
Those smallswords are very nice that Arms & Armor has, in fact I've been looking at that $440.00 smallsword for quite some time now. I believe it weighs 15 ounces and is fast as lightening.
I sure know what it's like to have a tight budget, for myself I focused on one area and that of course was this collection. True, had I not had that chunk of cash come into being, my collection would be much smaller. But one thing for sure, speaking for myself "Only". All those sacrifices and driving a beater that runs well, though the radio does not work and for the most part the van looks like hell but no rust. I just look at it this way, cars and vans only depreciate in value, they have a limited life expectancy, etc. But Smallswords, Rapiers and Swords of premium quality if cared for properly will last a multiple of decades instead of a vehicle that only lasts a multiple of years, and these smallswords, rapiers and swords of premium quality maintain and often increase their value.
I sure can emphathize with you on the limited budget, that chunk of cash is now here in steel and the reality of a much slowed down pace of acquisitions is life on life's terms for me.
Although that smallsword is a tad expensive it's worth every dime and you will no doubt be very happy for many years to come.
I am only relating my own reality, not at all trying to tell you how to acquire the smallsword, just stating the fact that I know exactly where your coming from and I am rooting for you Exclamation It is my Hope that something really nice will happen for you that loosens things up to make the acquisition of the smallsword that you would really like to have, becomes
your reality!

May a wonderful stroke of financial luck come your way soon! Wink Your not asking for too much and the way I see it,
You deserve to get a lucky break!

I Sure Hope it Happens for "You"!

Sincerely,

Bob

I need a bumper sticker that says: My Vehicle Might Be a Clunker But You Oughta See My Sword Collection Laughing Out Loud
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Martin Wilkinson





Joined: 05 Mar 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 18 Sep, 2007 8:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert T. wrote:
well I find the Godwin and both Arms and Armor smallswords to be the best buys for their price range without actually buying an antique. As much as I wan tthe arms and armor models, I will most likely end up buying the Godwin model, which is still rather attractive, and with the colichemarde blade, I think it will be a fine buy for my first smallsword. But before that, I am buying my mortuary hilt english half-basket.


Who's mortuary?

"A bullet you see may go anywhere, but steel's, almost bound to go somewhere."

Schola Gladiatoria
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J. Erb




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Sep, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, whose Mortuary? I've been staring longingly at Armour Class's for weeks now...

And I just remembered. The maker Lutel also offers smallswords, though I have no real idea as to their quality. Lutel has, however, gotten generally good reviews, if I recall correctly. I don't know if their smallswords are entirely historically accurate, but they look quite nice to me. I also don't know how much they would cost in US dollars...

Just thought I'd mention it!

"What greater weapon is there than to turn an enemy to your cause, to use their own knowledge against them?"
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Bob Burns




Location: South Indianapolis IN
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Sep, 2007 12:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well I don't want to continue a diversion from the top which is "Smallswords", but just briefly about the mortuary sword to help Robert out maybe. I have the Hanwei Cromwell Sword, which is a mortuary sword and I really like it a whole lot!
With that said, I look forward to reading more posts about Smallswords so as to possible learn a bit more about them.

SIncerely,

Bob
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Drew C.





Joined: 18 Sep 2007

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PostPosted: Tue 18 Sep, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a very interesting thread! I've been scouring the net for information on small swords. As a sport fencer, I was curious if there were any small swords on the market that handled close to a foil or epee (I don't know what a historical small sword handles like). Some of the reviews listed above talk about parries, beats, ripostes, etc, but I am not sure if they refer to actions in a historical style of fencing or in modern sport fencing. Is this a realistic thing to search for? Do people care about historical small swords that would feel natural in a sport fencer's hands? Or am I just crazy?

Thanks,
Drew
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Sam Barris




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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2007 2:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Drew,

My sport weapon is epee, and from everything I've been led to believe, a smallsword handles much like a shorter, more rigid epee. The trouble with sport fencing is that many of the techniques have strayed very far from what would have been possible with a weapon intended for combat. I've heard that strict classical fencing is a bit closer to the mark, in that guys like Aldo Nadi fought duels with sharp epees. (In Ferro Veritas or the master's program at San Jose State are what I'm taking about when I say "classical".) I've never had proper training in actual classical fencing, though, so I cannot verify that personally. Of course there are always the Mensur fraternities left in some parts of Europe who like to bloody each other up a bit. I haven't done that, either. From what I can tell though, it seems that much of what happens in a sport bout would be pointless or suicidal if the combat was with a smallsword or rapier. Likewise, many moves that would have been lethal in combat are at a disadvantage using electric weapons and electric scoring, since many modern fencing attacks exist to fool the scoring machine into thinking that a successful touch was made when one in fact has not been. I've had limited success trying to blend the two worlds, and it has led me to more or less give up on sport fencing entirely. I still do it, because it's the only thing that I can do here, but I see no future in it for me. I'm reserving judgment on classical fencing until I have the opportunity to study it.

Bill Grandy might chime in on this question. He knows a lot more about it than I do.

Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2007 5:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Drew C. wrote:
As a sport fencer, I was curious if there were any small swords on the market that handled close to a foil or epee (I don't know what a historical small sword handles like). Some of the reviews listed above talk about parries, beats, ripostes, etc, but I am not sure if they refer to actions in a historical style of fencing or in modern sport fencing. Is this a realistic thing to search for? Do people care about historical small swords that would feel natural in a sport fencer's hands? Or am I just crazy?


Hi Drew,
As Sam mentioned, some smallswords are not that far removed in handling to the modern epee. They aren't exactly the same, though, since the modern epee is based off of the 19th century duelling sword, which is essentially the same thing only sharp. (though many of the modern reproductions are often larger and heavier than their historical counterparts) The 19th century sword is a slight evolution away from the 18th century smallsword. Because they are not that far removed from each other, many of the techniques are very similar. As far as the reviews on this site go, yes, those reference historical fencing for the smallsword, not for the modern sport. You will see that much of the terminology in French smallsword fencing manuals is still used in the sport today. Some of it has changed a little, but the broad concepts are very similar.

The major difference, as Sam already alluded to, is that modern fencing is a sport, and therefore the goal is about scoring points rather than defending oneself. Classical fencing (the use of the foil, epee and sabre as it was done in the 19th century) is much closer to smallsword fencing, but even with classical fencing there are notable differences, particularly in the stance.

Attached are two images: The first is of Masaniello Parise practicing epee in the Italian style. The second is an image from Olivier's smallsword treatise. Note the difference in posture.



 Attachment: 83.71 KB
Parise.jpg


 Attachment: 34.24 KB
angelo.jpg


Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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