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Daniel Staberg




Location: Gothenburg/Sweden
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PostPosted: Mon 10 Sep, 2007 3:42 am    Post subject: Paul Dolnstein's diary         Reply with quote

Randall Moffett wrote:
Daniel,

I just did a search on his name but could not find his journal published anywhere. Do you know if it has been? IN English would be prefered as german is not a language I have much strength in. The artword is very good. It looks very similar to some earlier picture associated with the Hussites...

I will try getting ahold of the osprey books. It looks very descriptive and the fact that unlike many artists he was a soldier who was there would be really invaluble to get a clear insight on what his experience was like, armour and weapon use, clothing etc. I have to say the diary interests me perhaps more now that I have heard this. I think I may have heard of him in the past but never checked it out. Thanks for the info.

RPM

Randall,
AFAIK the diary has not been published in it's complete form, the only article I know about is in Swedish. Prof. Lars-Olof Larsson wrote it in 1982. I seem to have misplaced my photocopy of the article but IIRC it was focused mainly on the images connected with the Danish campaign in Western Sweden in 1502. I'll swing by the library and make another later today.

The diary is rather unconventional in that is a series of images with text commentaries rather than a classic written account of Dolnstein's experiences. A typical example of this is the attached drawing of the battle of Elfsborg on which is written the following:

Quote:
We were 1800 Germans and we were attacked by 15,000 Swedish farmers. God gaev us victory and we struck most of them dead. We were all wearing breast and back plates, skullcaps and arm defences, and they had crossbows and good pikes made from swords. Afterwards, the King of Denmark knighted us all and id us great honour and paid us well and let us return over the sea in 1503. I, Paul Dolnstein was there and Sir Sigmund List was our Obrist.


Of course some of the claims in the text are clearly exaggerated such as the 15,000 Swedes or all of the Germans being knighted. It and the drawing of the horseman gives a good overview of Dolnstein's strengths and weaknesses as an illustrator.

I'll try to add more information as soon as I have access to the article mentioned above.

Daniel



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Dolnstein_battle_of_elfsborg_1502b.jpg
The battle of Elfsborg 1502

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Dolnstein_horseman.jpg
Partially armoured horseman
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Mon 10 Sep, 2007 5:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Daniel,

Thanks for that information. It is a shame it has not been translated into English or really any other language for that matter. Was it written in german originally then? Where is it housed?

Look forward to future illustrations and excepts.

RPM
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Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon 10 Sep, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing those pics. Happy

I've always found the period from 1500 to 1510 to be a bit mysterious where European armour is concerned, this should fill in those gaps.
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W. Schütz
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Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Tue 11 Sep, 2007 4:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Its a wonderful time..;)
Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Daniel Staberg




Location: Gothenburg/Sweden
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Sep, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randall Moffett wrote:
Daniel,

Thanks for that information. It is a shame it has not been translated into English or really any other language for that matter. Was it written in german originally then? Where is it housed?

Look forward to future illustrations and excepts.

RPM

The diary is written in the eastern form of Middle German which was the common language in Saxony were Paul Dolnstein was born.

The diary is located in the Thüringisches Hauptstaatsarchiv Weimar. (ThHStAW Ernestinisches Gesamtarchiv, Reg. S fol.460, Nr. 6BL.)

I've been able to locate another articles about the diary, in German.
Helene Dihle&Adolf Closs: Das Kriegstagebuch eines deutschen Landsknechts um die wende des 15. Jahrhunderts. (Zeitschrift für historische Waffen-und Kostümkunde, Neue Folge Band 3 (12) Berlin 1929
Helene Dihle has also written a further article concering with the Siege of Elfsborg 1502 as described by Dolnstein in a Swedish Journal.

The diary consists of 18 sheets of papper of which the last 4,5 are empty. A large loose sheet with a drawing of the siege of Elfsborg 1502 had been lost by 1981 but several photos of it are still in existent and have been printed several times.

In my next installment I'll provide an overview of what is known about Paul Dolnstein, menawhile I've attached 3 further images from the diary which are focused on arms & armor, enjoy!



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Horse_vs_foot.jpg
Unnamed battle

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Mixed horse.jpg
Mtd crossbowmen and a gendarme

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pike_practice.jpg
Landsknechts practice pike fighting
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Lawrence Parramore





Joined: 24 Nov 2006

Posts: 132

PostPosted: Wed 23 Jul, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The guy in the middle of the front row on the right has a horned helmet, or am I just seeing things?

Lawrence
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Danielle Skjelver




Location: North Dakota
Joined: 18 Feb 2011

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 7:06 am    Post subject: Dolstein's Diary in English         Reply with quote

FYI - Part of my master's thesis (History) is translating Dolstein's diary into English. I am hoping to have a working copy within a couple of months. There are issues with deciphering his handwriting.

Danielle
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's wonderful! If you can secure reproduction rights for the images I think it's a guaranteed publication--popular press or academic. Does your university automatically upload theses and dissertations?
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Danielle Skjelver




Location: North Dakota
Joined: 18 Feb 2011

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 7:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually this year they just started digitizing all theses/dissertations, so yes, my thesis will be available online.

I have long wondered why there is so little in English on this fantastic little sketchbook. It's such an exciting work. Glad you are interested!
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 7:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You should pitch it to Osprey Publishing. If they want it they'll help you secure reproduction rights. In fact, they've used Dolstein images in at least on of their books, if I remember correctly (Landsknecht Soldier). Osprey splits the difference between popular and academic press. I'm sorry to be so pushy! My excuse is that I and so many others are keen to have this book in our libraries. Read below:

Authors and Artists

If you wish to contact Osprey authors or artists, or to find out how to become a contributor

Contacting authors and illustrators

We do not disclose the contact details of Osprey contributors directly to the public, though we can forward correspondence regarding Osprey titles to the authors. If you wish to contact our authors or illustrators, please send a letter to the Editorial department at our Head Office in the United Kingdom or email editorial@ospreypublishing.com. Our editors will be happy to forward your correspondance to the authors and artists concerned.

Writing for Osprey

Osprey is delighted to consider new title proposals for our established series, although we do NOT accept unsolicited manuscripts.

If you would like to propose a title for publication, please submit a short synopsis of not more than 2,000 words to the following address:

Commissioning Editor
Editorial Department
Osprey Publishing
Midland House
West Way
Botley,
Oxford
OX2 0PH
United Kingdom

Alternatively you can email your synopsis to: editorial@ospreypublishing.com

A synopsis should comprise a brief overview of the nature of your proposal and outline of chapter headings and content; a list of available source material on which the research will be based; and sample copies of illustrations that will accompany the title or article, together with details of where others will be obtained from.

Please note that there is no need to delve into the depths of the subject at this stage, as the synopsis serves only to give us an introduction to the proposed title. Should the synopsis be suitable and of good quality, further details can be requested and discussed. While we cannot guarantee to publish any submitted proposals, we will certainly give each one our full consideration.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 7:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wait...if you're who I think you are you don't need any publication advice. Blush
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Danielle Skjelver




Location: North Dakota
Joined: 18 Feb 2011

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PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 7:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I assure you I am not who you think I am if you think I need no advice. :-) I am published out there in a couple of places, but the publishing world is brutal, and I'm just a graduate student.

Thanks very much. I will contact Osprey. I have the LK Soldier book by Richards. It's wonderful. :-)


Last edited by Danielle Skjelver on Fri 18 Feb, 2011 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 7:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's great to know that this is in the hands of a published historian. Osprey should be glad to know it, too. Big Grin
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Danielle,

I would love to see it as well. I find the artwork amazing in detail. How hard is it to learn Dolstein's dialect of German opposed to modern German? I went with mostly Latin descended medieval languages during my degree but have hopes to get into more languages in the future. I did do Anglo-Saxon which I have heard is similar to German.

They started doing online copies of dissertations at my university the last few months of my PhD as well. Though I am still waiting to see if it will happen as some students decided they wanted to contest the change mid program so it may never happen, or become optional.

Keep us posted,

Randall
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Danielle Skjelver




Location: North Dakota
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 8:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Will do, Randall. What are you studying now?

Dolstein's German is wonderful - it reads like news. It's straightforward like most Renaissance Military Memoirs. There is no linguistic imagery, very few metaphors.

His German is quite like Norwegian actually - or Swedish I suppose. If you have Anglo-Saxon and a little familiarity with Scandinavian tongues, you could read Dolstein's German quite nicely.

My Latin is extant but awful. You made the right choice; Latin opens most medieval manuscripts. :-)

Danielle
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 1:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Danielle,

I am done studying as a full time student and am now teaching at Weber State University, Utah. I studied/study the military organization of English towns during the late medieval period, though I hope to move into the same in France and Germany if I can get Britain taken care of. I also study medieval weapons, armour, artillery and tactics.


I knew I should have taken old Norse but decided on Anglo-Saxon. I still might have to have a look at it though I dare say my A-S is fairly rusty.

RPM
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Danielle Skjelver




Location: North Dakota
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Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randall,

How fascinating! Forgive my ignorance, but I am imagining something akin to a compulsory militia, yes, with few professional troops?

I recall hearing or reading somewhere that English archers had misshapen spines from the overdevelopment of one side of their bodies - from the extreme power it took to draw the bow. That boggles my mind.

Did you work with Middle English as well, or was most of your research in Latin?

It is social history that attracts me more than tactical history. I am only just now finding myself with much background in German military social history. It is fascinating and elusive. Happy I started studying the Landsknecht in researching my second novel, which has been a work in progress for too many years already. I hope to finish it in the next 3 years. We shall see... Fortunately, my thesis work is relevant.

Danielle
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Sat 19 Feb, 2011 5:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Danielle,

Basically in England by 1300 you have two primary systems in place. The General array which is usually all men 16-60 and the commission of array which is given a quota of men for every city, town and/or county. The commission is usually only asking 100s or thousands of men so lower in terms or actual men armed. That said the general array was more or less just intended for defence of the home county or town while the commissioned men could be sent anywhere, even outside the country for offensive campaigns. For the most part commissioned men get sent inside the country for defensive needs though.

The bigger picture became, as my studies went on, how important towns were to defence- both physically as well as in information gathering and containment. A system existed in which towns had responsibility for their immediate areas for protection. Towns like Southampton on the south coast was a excellent example of this, being on the top target list for France. So towns certainly provided men their biggest contribution was allowing the king, nobles and their armies to go wage war and keep the kingdom defended.

If you are interested I am planning on placing my PhD thesis online as soon as I get my site up and running.

RPM
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Danielle Skjelver




Location: North Dakota
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Posts: 29

PostPosted: Mon 21 Feb, 2011 5:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randall,

That is fascinating, and it clarifies a general fuzziness. I recently read a work on the problems of recruiting a force - especially for foreign service - and the impact of the loss of those men during campaign but also the impact of their return, especially if it had been a long campaign. I believe it was Hale's War and Society in Renaissance Europe. Wonderful book. I think he's a bit fanciful at times, but when one recognizes that, one can glean so much from his interpretation.

For your topic in particular: that towns were crucial as sources of manpower and as points of national defense (If I may use that word national. Wink) must have been a newish idea. Was it? It seems so precise and important.

I allowed myself to dive into the new Robin Hood movie with my husband and eldest son, and while it's a movie and certainly 'creative' with history, it claims that at least one of England's towns (and one assumes they mean to imply more) was drained of men for foreign wars. Do you know how often this happened - that towns lost the ability to defend themselves because all of their men were away at war?

Did you have to/get to go to England for research?

I went to Germany in 2007 for research for my novel, and while the travel bug is beginning to bite, I don't think I'll need to go back for the thesis. We shall see.

I am fascinated by Danelaw - they have a DNA project at the York/Jorvik Viking Museum now to give a person of English descent an idea whether s/he is descended from Scandis as well. I would imagine so many of us are.

Is Moffett English?

Lots of questions. If you don't have time to answer them, I understand. So good chatting with someone about this sort of thing.

And of course, I would be interested in reading your work! I would probably not get to it until summer, but I would like it very much.

Danielle
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Danielle Skjelver




Location: North Dakota
Joined: 18 Feb 2011

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sun 06 May, 2012 5:53 am    Post subject: Dolnstein's Diary in English         Reply with quote

Hello All,

I wanted to update this thread for those interested in Dolnstein's diary in English. My thesis is done and will be available online through the library at the University of North Dakota later this month or in June. I hope to turn it into an article or two as well for something more easily accessible.

Dolnstein's sketchbook appears to move the dating of the integration of pike and shot two decades earlier than the current scholarly consensus places it.

Best Regards,
Danielle

"A young Apollo, golden-haired,
Stands dreaming on the verge of strife,
Magnificently unprepared
For the long littleness of life."
-- Frances Cornford
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