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Rodolfo Martínez




Location: Argentina
Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 347

PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Just a simple simulation...         Reply with quote

Hello guys.
Maybe, this will just sound a bit silly and a lack of technical info, its just to know what you think or would do.
Imagine now that you are in the battle of Pavia, riding furiously your fully armored horse with a group of your fellow gendarmes, and suddenly, a bullet kills your riding. You fall and luckily you can get up without much conmotion. So, with your warhammer/ battleaxe/ mace still in hand, your longsword/ broadsword resting in the scabbard and your dagger you are ready to fight when a bunch of enemy mercenary soldiers surrounds you and the gendarmes... the fog of war don´t let me see very far, but you can hear distant hooves... maybe the enemy cavalry...
I was thinking... asking for quarters to the mercs... but i will get a free bullet in my head... fighting with the contundent weapon(Axe/ hammer/ mace)... or unelashing the longsword? (Finally i could get some XVI century woodcuts showing those guys carrying longswords for mounted combat, so i´ll not be bothering around with that thing)
What do you think its the best option? What would you do?

Thanks.

P.D.
This is totally off-topic but if someone knows how those XVI century equestrian belts with scabbards were, please let me know.

¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Jonathan Blair




Location: Hanover, PA
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 478

PostPosted: Mon 20 Aug, 2007 4:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Okay, a bullet kills my horse (I assume that is what you meant by "riding"), but I'm still with my fellow gendarmes, and we are surrounded by enemy mercenary soldiers. How many gendarmes are with me and how many landsknechts? What time is it (nighttime or daytime) and which way are we facing (would the sun be in our eyes or in the enemies)? I suppose that the battle is still in its early stages; otherwise, are we demoralized and disheartened by the events of the battle? Have the landsknechts seen us yet, since you mentioned fog? Do we have an strategic advantage that can be deployed against the mercs?
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - The Lord Jesus Christ, from The Gospel According to Saint Matthew, chapter x, verse 34, Authorized Version of 1611
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Rodolfo Martínez




Location: Argentina
Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 347

PostPosted: Mon 20 Aug, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good point Mr. Blair.
Lets make it easier for our gendarme company, we aren´t facing the midday sun, but it is not behind us or in our enemy´s eyes, lets say, the sun is at our 9 o´clock.
About the number of allies, we aren´t more than 50 knights, we lost sight of our fellow infantry since the enemy mercenaries almost surrounded us, i can´t precise their number but they are hundreds and it seems that they have spotted us. Before this ambush, the French cavalry defeated the enemy Imperial cavalry and forced them to retreat, we were very heartened and followed them but maybe they carried us into somekind of trap. We don´t have any idea where our main heavy cavalry force is. Maybe we can do something to break the landsknechts´ formation and with some luck get our ass out of there.

¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Fri 24 Aug, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My first choice in this case would be to gather the gendarmes into a compact formation and charge; it could be all on foot or a first wave by the still-mounted ones opening a way for the second wave of dismounted ones to follow and escape in their wake. The weapon doesn't matter; what counts here is tactics, which includes the factors of formation, cohesion, morale, and aggressiveness. With our complete armor giving us a sense of invulnerabilty, it shouldn't be that difficult to gather the resolve needed for a charge out into freedom. If we do it right the Landsknechts shouldn't even give much resistance, either giving way before contact or immediately after the leading edge of our formation crashes against one side of their encirclement.

As for 16th-century sword belts, I'd say that most would closely resemble their 15th-century predecessors. Are you having difficulties in finding images for this one?
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Fri 24 Aug, 2007 10:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lafayette C Curtis wrote:
My first choice in this case would be to gather the gendarmes into a compact formation and charge; it could be all on foot or a first wave by the still-mounted ones opening a way for the second wave of dismounted ones to follow and escape in their wake. The weapon doesn't matter; what counts here is tactics, which includes the factors of formation, cohesion, morale, and aggressiveness. With our complete armor giving us a sense of invulnerabilty, it shouldn't be that difficult to gather the resolve needed for a charge out into freedom. If we do it right the Landsknechts shouldn't even give much resistance, either giving way before contact or immediately after the leading edge of our formation crashes against one side of their encirclement.

As for 16th-century sword belts, I'd say that most would closely resemble their 15th-century predecessors. Are you having difficulties in finding images for this one?


Yeah, sound good to me: Pick a direction, preferably away from the maximum concentrations of Landskrechts and back to one's own force and crash through.

The exception being that it shouldn't turn into a retreat where one's backs would be to the enemy. Also a " retreat " might negatively impact the rest of the battle if it looks cowardly and demoralize one's side when they see your group running away !

Alternatively, keep going in the direction of the main battle and charge through and keep moving no matter what: Break through or die well !

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Rodolfo Martínez




Location: Argentina
Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 347

PostPosted: Sun 26 Aug, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And what about their firearms and the dismounted ones? I don´t know but what if after the charge, the mercs close the hole in their formation or something like that?

Quote:
As for 16th-century sword belts, I'd say that most would closely resemble their 15th-century predecessors. Are you having difficulties in finding images for this one?


Just i don´t know how their swords hanged from their belts while mounted, or Wich is the best position to draw a sword from horseback?
I don´t recognize in the images XVI and XV century ones,

¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug, 2007 6:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rodolfo Martínez wrote:
And what about their firearms and the dismounted ones? I don´t know but what if after the charge, the mercs close the hole in their formation or something like that?


*grins*

Who cares about that? Once we've broken out of their formation, we'd have all the time in the world to turn back, scream at the top of our lungs, and charge them down again. The difference being that this time we're more likely to get the support of our friends in the field. Wink

See, that's what military planning is like. Think about too many things and you won't get anything done. The maxim here is "A bad plan is better than no plans at all" because a plan, however bad, allows us to act and (hopefully) seize the initiative.


Quote:
Just i don´t know how their swords hanged from their belts while mounted, or Wich is the best position to draw a sword from horseback?


I'm not sure about the medieval opinion, but personally I prefer a vertical or near-vertical position when drawing the sword on horseback. This doesn't have to mean a vertical mounting for the sword, however. A horizontal mounting is fine as long as it can be easily twisted into a vertical position when I need to draw it.
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