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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 1:01 am    Post subject: martial practice and conditioning         Reply with quote

So a friend of mine and I were recently talking about how we had done our drills and practices in the past and how other groups did them. We both had done some limited conditioning exercises along with sword and other weapon training in our respective groups. I was just curious what other people did now and if they knew of any good historic cases of conditioning to get ones body into shape to deal with arduous physical activity?

I was looking at the Near East and appearantly they have a system that does incorporate conditioning along with weapons training that in Iran continues till today.

In England they have the commissions of array. I have been looking for some account that might shed more light on this. It is clear here is where they were gathered, tried and furnished with arms and armour but in the time this is taking place I often wonder if they did not have some form of practice going on. I would be better to keep them occupied then have all the men of a county or urban location from idleness....

Any comments or information would be excellent.

RPM
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Sam Barris




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Japanese use oversized bokken called suburi-to to strengthen their arms while doing kenjutsu drills. I haven't played with those too much, but I know people who swear by them. Indian clubs are another great tool that I recently incorporated into my workouts. After swinging around a five pound club in each hand for a while, a sword feels almost weightless. Especially if you grip the pommel of the club, which just kills your hand, wrist and forearm. Good stuff.

I don't know anything about the commissions of array. I'm curious to hear more about it, though.

Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 9:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Beyond just a warm up to prevent injury I'm sort of lazy and unmotivated doing exercise directly associated with a martial arts activity and when doing our pre-session workout I' m just looking forward for it to be over and start the fun stuff. Wink

Now, I do go the the gym at least a couple of time a week doing weight training and when doing that I can motivate myself and enjoy the exercise because that is why I'm there for that day. ( been training at a gym since 1984 with only a few periods of a few months of layoffs from training ).

I do mostly weights and I must admit I don't do enough aerobic exercise as I enjoy lifting weights a lot more.

Now if I didn't also go the the gym having some serious conditioning effort included as part of the martial arts session becomes much more important.

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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: martial practice and conditioning         Reply with quote

Hi Randall,
This is an interesting subject. Are you looking for historical information, or is modern conditioning something you're interested in as well? If only historic, then you're going to have to be a lot more specific. Happy A lot of different time periods and countries did a number of different things: Indian clubs in the 19th century for saber training, stone tossing in the 15th century, acrobatics, etc.

In modern times, I've been a big fan of medicine ball drills. Even just pairing up and jogging in place while tossing one back and forth is a good warm up drill, made even better when you add drills such as looping the ball under each leg, or rotating it around the waist before you toss it to the partner.

Jogging ladders are fantastic. There are many ways of modifying how you run through them so that you can practice various forms of foot-eye coordination.

There's always the standard running/push-ups/squats. Though I'm a big proponent of playing "games" that incorporate those. For example, form a circle with your partner and toss a medicine ball around. If someone drops it, that person has to do "x" amount of push-ups or squats. To up the difficulty, add a second medicine ball to the mix.

I prefer "active" warm up drills that involve sudden movement of varying intensity. Combined with some basic stretching, this is not only good conditioning, it'll keep your joints mobile and healthier.

Edited to add: You may also want to check out the most recent issue of Western Martial Arts Illustrated. There's a good article on Bernarr Macfadden's breathing excercises from the 19th/early 20th century.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


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Hugo Voisine





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PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In the group I attend we mostly do stretching and some flourish for about 15-20 minutes before the "real thing" begin. Then again some stretching or cardio-conditioning for a few minutes at the end of the class.

At home I do some weight-lifting to build strength and endurance, and also some cutting exercises. I used to have a pell but no more, which is unfortunate. The pell is really a good way to acquire strength and, most important, control.

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Charlee Garvin




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject: Conditioning         Reply with quote

I suggest you join a local Rugby Club if you want total strength and conditioning. Playing rugby was as close to being on a battlefield as I have ever come. My hair even hurt after the games. You get a great workout---meet great guys--drink lots of beer, and feel like you've been in a war. Hell, picking up a sword just comes natural after that.

Regards,

Charlee
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Randall Moffett




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Aug, 2007 11:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill,

Basically I am just interested to see what people do now and what people did then. Any historical basis woudl eb great though, especially 1300-1500. I am interested to see the relationship between how people condition themselves to prepared for weapons training or in that time period battle.

I had never thought about using a medicine ball. Sounds interesting.

Everyone,

Thanks for the responses. I was curious about this for some time. A few years back I was part of a fairly large skirmish. Most were in lighter armour a few of us were in full suits basically. A few of us had a small amount of contitioning in our training and were fairly active, most were runners actually thinking back on it while a fair number only did arms training. In the skirmish I noticed that many who had the conditioning were suffereing less from the california summer heat and able to keep going the few hours the skirmish was on while we had others who were consistantly puffing and huffing. IT might have been just the situation but thereafter we did more conditioning anyways. Just curious if anyone else had similar setup or experiences or knew of historic precedence.

Personally I'd like to get back into running but never have enough time. I do walk everywhere so not totally out of shape and exercise at least everyother days but mostly pushups, pullups, leg lifts etc. I have heard they are less cruel on the joints than weights etc.

Charlee,

Rugby here in the UK seems to be unfettered agression in many aspects so I can see the relation to war quite easily Big Grin . All joking aside it would be an idea though I do not have the time to go to all the matches they'd require I am guessing. Perhaps I will inquire with a few of my rugby playing friends about their practices.

Thanks again!

RPM
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Daniel S.




Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Aug, 2007 12:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great subject! Remember that painting with the already mentioned stone tossing? Well if I remember correctly there is a guy standing on his head on a table I think. I don't know about the table but what I want to flag is conditioning of the neck. Good for wrestling, wearing armour and if by chance one have to absorb hard hits. Protecting the brain is a good thing Happy

Exercises include: * Lying on the back doing 'sit-ups' with the head only (nose pointing forward and to the sides). Can be done on stomach to. * Another more difficult exercise is standing with your forehead and your toes so you make the shape of an A. Stomach facing the ground. Great static training. Can be done in the reverse with the back of your head and your feet planted on the ground (back facing ground). Then you'll be in the shape of a U upside down. Important in both cases is to secure the neck in a safe position. * Standing on the head is great but make sure the neck is in a strong position so it isn't hurt. * Complement with weight lifting.

Randall - I don't think weight lifting per se is bad for the joints. When doing pull ups for instance you're really doing some serious weight lifting (depending on your weight off course..) but I bet no harm have come to you from that. Its all about not lifting more than one can handle - and off course to warm up! I would think that for most people regular jogging on a hard surface is more straining to the joints than lifting weights.

Daniel S.
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Anders Nilsson




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Aug, 2007 1:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ancient training is quite easy to get. It´s ordinary track and field. Longjump, running, javelin and such. Mix it with wrestling and boxing and you got it all. Since it´s still practised today I bet it was used in the medieval era av well at least in some form.

I have a book in Swedish about the Viking training. I can translate some for you.

The Vikings called their training for "Games" or "Plays".

Wrestling games

Wrestling with locked arms.
Both fighters lock their arms behind their opponents backs. Both fighters should have an upper and one lower grip. The goal is to make your opponent fall or touch one knee on the ground. If you loose your grip, you have lost.

Wrestling with pantsgrip (Glima)
Google on this and you´ll find plenty.

Free wrestling
Like MMA. The one that gives up loses.
You can also start with both fighters lying down. The goal is to get on your feet while your opponent is still on the ground.

Waterwrestling
MMA while swimming. The one that gives up loses.

Pulling games

Pull stick
The players sit feet to feet. They have a stick betwen them. Both have an inner and an outer grip. The goal is to pull the stick from you opponents hand or pull him up.

This game can also be played with a piece of rope, a ring or by gripping each others wrists.

Game of the trolls
A hide is used. All players grip the hide with both hands. As many players as can grip the hide can participate. The goal is to be the last one that grips the hide. All but, striking is allowed. If you lose grip with one hand you put it on your back, if you loose grip with both, you out.


Snowballfight
They built forts in the snow and played siege. It´s like MMA in the snow with throwing snowballs. To take one out you had to "mula" him. You press his face in the snow, after that he is dead and out of the game.

Apart from this they also practiced running games, lifting games, throwing games, jumping games and such.

Try them, they are quite fun.
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Keith Nelson




Location: Kalamazoo, MI, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Aug, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a list of exercises from Galen. I copied these off of SFI at one point in time, originally posted by either Tom Leoni or Steve Hick, I believe.

-------------------
A List of Ancient Exercises from Galen's De Sanitate Tuenda

Galen (130 - 200 A.D.) hailed from Pergamon, an ancient center of civilization, containing, among other cultural institutions, a library second in importance only to Alexandria itself. [snip] Galen's first professional appointment was as surgeon to the gladiators in Pergamon. In his tenure as surgeon he undoubtedly gained much experience and practical knowledge in anatomy from the combat wounds he was compelled to treat. After four years he immigrated to Rome where he attained a brilliant reputation as a practitioner and a public demonstrator of anatomy. Among his patients were the emperors Marcus Aurelius, Lucius Verus, Commodus and Septimius Severus.

Galen divides his exercises into three categories, which we may term "strong", "rapid and "violent", which is a combination of the preceding two. Galen's listing of the exercises gives us a fascinating glimpse into the everyday activities of the Paleastrae, Gymnasia and other more leisurely-areas of the ancient world. The affinities they have with the various sporting events can be made out: kicking of the legs for Pankration, rope-climbing for wrestling, holding the arms up for boxing.

STRONG
1) Digging
2) Picking up something heavy
3) Picking up something heavy and walking with it
4) Walking uphill
5) Climbing a rope using the hands and feet: commonly done to train boys in the wrestling schools
6) Hanging onto a rope or beam for as long as possible
7) Holding the arms straight out in front with fists closed
8) Holding the arms straight out in front with fists closed
9) Holding out the arms while a partner pulls them down
10) The preceding three exercises but while holding something heavy such as jumping-weights
11) Breaking loose from a wrestling waist-lock
12) Holding onto a person trying to escape from a waist-lock
13) Picking up a man who is bending over at the hips and lifting him up and swinging him around
14)Doing the same but bending oneself at the hips also when picking him up
15) Pushing chest to chest trying to force the opponent backwards
16) Hanging from another's neck, attempting to drag him down
Exercises requiring a wrestling pit:
a) Entwine your partner with both your legs around one of his and try to apply a choke or force his head backwards
b) The same but using only one leg to entwine the opponents leg closest to yours
c) The same but using both legs to entwine both of the opponents legs.

RAPID
1) Running
2) Shadow-boxing
3) Boxing
4) Hitting punching bags
5) Throwing and catching a small ball while running
6) Running back and forth, reducing the length each time until finished
7) Stand on the balls of the feet, put the arms up in the air and rapidly and alternatly bringing them forweard and back; stand near a wall if afraid of losing ones's balance
8) Rolling on the wrestling-ground rapidly by oneself or with others
9) Rapidly changing places with people next to one in a tightly packed group
10) Jumping up and kicking both legs together backwards
11) Kicking the legs forward alternatly
12) Move the arms up and down rapidly with open or closed fist, increasing in speed

VIOLENT
1) Digging rapidly
2) Casting the discus
3) Jumping repeatedly with no rest
4) Throwing heavy spears and moving fast while wearing heavy armour
4) Any of the 'strong' exercises executed rapidly: presumably running uphill, swinging jumping weights forward and back, and lifting them up and down, chin-ups and so on.

Other exercises
1) Walking
2) bending up and down repeatedly at the hips
3) Lifting a weight up from the ground
4) Holding up and object for a long time
4) Full and loud breathing
5) Placing two weights on the ground approximately six feet from each other, picking up the one on the left with the right hand and then the one on the right with the left hand, then in turn placing them back where they came from on the ground and doing this many times with the feet stationary
-------------------------------

Monte might also have some information, as I know he's got some stuff on breathing and exercise. However, that information is somewhere in my notes and not easily found right now. Also, it's in Latin... Big Grin I know he talks about running for exercise.

Finally, Bascetti's compilation of Italian sources on sports and games from the 15th-18th century has some very nice period sources showing exercises, including swimming, horseback, and various gymnastic/weight exercises from various authors. Also has Pietro Monte's original wrestling manuscript from the 1400's. Should be available through ILL. All in Italian, BTW... Big Grin

Bascetta, Carlo ; Sport e giuochi : trattati e scritti dal XV al XVIII secolo a cura di Carlo Bascetta; Milano : Il Polifilo, 1978

Keith


Last edited by Keith Nelson on Mon 20 Aug, 2007 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Keith Nelson




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Aug, 2007 8:20 am    Post subject: DiGrassi on exercise         Reply with quote

Okay, here's another:

DiGrassi's advice on exercise:
(from http://www.cs.unc.edu/~hudson/digrassi/privatepractice.html)

How a man by privat practise may obtain strength of bodie therby
IF nature had bestowed strength upon men (as manie beleeve) in such sorte as she hath given sight, hearing, and other sences, which are such in us, that they may not by our endevour either be encreased, or diminished, it should be no lesse superfluous, then ridiculus to teach howe strength should be obtained, then it were if one should say, he would instruct a m an how to heare and see better then he doth alreadie by nature. Neither albeit he that becommeth a Painter or a Musition seeth the proportions much better then he did before, or by hearing lerneth the harmonie and conformitie of voices which he knew not, ought it therefore be saide, that he seeth or hereth more then he did? For that procedeth not of better hearing or seeing, but of seeing and hearing with more reason. But in strength it doth not so come to passe: For it is manifestlie seene, than a man of ripe age and strength, cannot lift upp a waight to daie which he canne doe on the morrowe, or some other time. But contrarie, if a man prove with the selfe same sight on the morroe or some other time to see a thing which yesterday he sawe not in the same distance, he shall but trouble him selfe in vaine, and be in daunger rather to see lesse then more, as it commonlie happeneth to studentes and other such, who do much exercise their sight. Therefore there is no doubt at all but that mans strength may be encreased by reasonable exersise, And so likewise by too much rest it may be diminished: the which if it were not manifest, yet it might be proved by infinite examples. You shall see Gentlemen, Knights and others, to bee most strong and nimble, in running or leaping, or in vaulting, or in turning on Horse-backe, and yet are not able by a great deale to beare so great a burthen as a Cuntrie man or Porter: But contrarie in running and leaping, the Porter and Cuntrieman are most slow and heavie, neither know they howe to vawte upon their horse without a ladder. And this procedeth of no other cause, then for that everie man is not exercised in that which is most esteemed: So that if in the managing of these weapons, a man would gette strength, it shalbe convenient for him to exercise himselfe in such sort as shalbe declared.

For the obtaining of this strength and actiuitie, three things ought to be considered, to witte, the armes, the feete and the leggs, in each of which it is requisite that everie one be greatlie exercised, considering that to know wel how to mannage the armes, and yet to bee ignorant in the motion of the feete, wanting skill how to goe forwardes and retire backewardes, causeth men oftentimes to overthrowe themselves.

And on the other side, when one is exercised in the governing of his feete, but is ignorant in the timelie motion of his armes, it falleth out that he goeth forwards in time, but yet wanting skill how to move his armes, he doth not onelie not offend the enimie, but also manie times remaineth hurte and offended himself. The bodie also by great reason ought to be borne and susteyned upon his foundation. For when it boweth either too much backewardes or forwardes, either on the on or other side, streight waie the government of the arms and leggs are frustrate and the bodie, will or nill, remaineth striken. Therefore I will declare the manner first how to exercise the Armes, secondlie the Feete, thirdly the Bodie, Feete & Armes, joyntly:

Of the exercise and strength of the armes
YET a man be never so strong and lustie, yet he shall deliver a blowe more slowe and with less force than an other shall who is lesse strong, but more exercised: & without doubt he shall so werie his armes, handes and bodie, that he cannot long endure to labour in any such busines. And there hath beene manie, who by reason of such sudden wearines, have suddenlie dispaired of themselves, giving over the exercise of the weapon, as not appertaining unto them. Wherein they deceie themselves, for such wearines is vanquished by exercise, by meanes whereof it is not long, but that the bodie feete & armes are so strengthened, that heavie things seem light, & that they are able to handle verie nimblie anie kinde of weapon, and in briefe overcome all kind of difficulty and hardnesse. Therefore when one would exrecise his armes, to the entent to gette strength, he must endevour continuallie to overcome wearines, resolving himselfe in his judgement, that paines is not caused, through debilitie of nature, but rather hangs about him, because he hath not accustomed to exercise his members thereunto.

There are two things to be considered in this exercise, to wit the hand that moveth, and the thing that is moved, which two things being orderlie laid downe, I hope I shall obtaine as much as I desire. As touching the hand and arme, according as I hae alreadie saide, it was devided in the treatise of the true Arte, in three partes, that is to saie, into the wrist, the eblowe, and the shoulder, In everie of which it is requisite, that it move most swiftlie and stronglie, regarding alwaies in his motion the qualitie of the weapon that is borne in the hande, the which may be infinite, and therefore I will leave them and speake onelie of the single sword, because it beareth a certaine proportion and agreement unto all the rest.

The sword as each man knowes, striketh either with the poynt or with the edge. To strike edgewise, it is required that a man accustome himselfe to strike edgewise as well right as reversed with some cudgell or other thing apt for the purpose, First practising to fetch the compasse of the shoulder, which is the strongest, and yet the slowest edgeblowe that may be given: Next and presentlie after, the compasse of the elbowe, then that of the wrist, which is more preste and readie then any of the rest. After certaine daies that he that exercised these three kindes of compassing edgeblows on after an other as swiftly as he may possible And when he feleth in him selfe that he has as it were unlosed all those three knittings of joyntes of the arme, and can strike and deliver stronglie from two of those joyntes, to witte the Elbowe & the Wrist, he shal then let the Shoulder joynt stand, and accustome to strike stronglie and swiftlie with those two of the Elbow and the Wrist, yet at the length and in the end of all shal onlie in a maner practise that of the VVrist, when he perceiveth his hand-wrist to be wel strengthened, delivering this blowe of the Wrist, twice or thrice, sometimes right, sometims reversed, once right, and once reversed, two reverses and one right, and likewise, to right and one reversed, to the ende that the hande take not a custome to deliver a righte blowe immediately after a reverse. For sometimes it is commodious, and doth much advantage a man to deliver two right, and two reversed, or else after two right, one reversed: and these blowes, ought to be exercised, as well with one hand as with the other, standing stedfast in one resonable pace, practising them now alofte, now beneath, now in the middle. As touching the waight or heft, which is borne in the hande, be it sword or other weapon, I commend not their opinion any waie, who will for the strengthning of a mans arme that he handle first a heavie weapon, because being first used to them, afterwardes, ordinarie weapons will seeme the lighter unto him, but I think rather the contrarie, to wite, that first to the end, he doe not over burthen & choak his strength, he handle a verie light sword, & such a one, that he maie most nimblie move. For the ende of this arte is not ot lifte up or beare great burdens, but to move swiftelie. And there is no doubt but he vanquisheth which is most niblie, and this nimblenesse is not obtained by handling of great heftes or waightes, but by often moving.

But yet after that he hath sometime travailed with a light weapon, then it is necessarie according as he feeleth himselfe to increase in strength of arme, that he take an other in hande, that is something heavier, and such a one as will put him to a little more paine, but yet not so much, that his swiftnes in motion be hindred thereby. And as his strength encreaseth, to encrease likewise the waight by little and little. So will it not be long, but that he shalbe able to mannage verie nimblie any heavie sword. The blowe of the poynt or the thrust, cannot be handled without the consideration of the feete and body, because the strong delivering of a thrust, consisteth in the apt and timelie motion of the armes feete and bodie: For the exercise of which, it is necessarie that he knowe how to place them in everie of the three wardes, to the ende, that from the warde he may deliver strongly a thrust in as little time as is possible. And therefore he shall take heede that in the low warde, he make a reasonable pace, bearin ghis hande without his knee, forsing on the thrust nimblie, and retiring his arme backward, and somewhat encreasing his forefoote more forwardes, to the end, the thrust may reach the farther: But if he chance to increase the forefoot a little too much, so that the breadth thereof be painfull unto him, then for the avoiding of inconeniences he shall draw his hinderfoot so much after, as he did before increase with the forefoote. And this thrust must be oftentimes jerked or sprong forth, to the end to lengthen the arme, accustoming to drive it on without retyring of it selfe, that by that meanes it may the more readily settle in the broad warde, for that is framed (as it is well knowen) with the arme & foote widened outwards, but not lengthened towards the enimie. And in thrusting let him see, that he deliver them as straight as he can possibly, to the end, they may reach out the longer.

At what time one would deliver a thruste, it is requisite that he move the body & feete behind, so much in a compasse, that both the shoulders, arme & feet, be under one self same straight lyne. Thus exercisinge him selfe he shal nimbly deliver a verie great & strong thrust. And this manner of thrusting ought oftentimes to be practised, accustoming the bodie & feete (as before) to move in a compasse: for this mocion is that which instructeth one, how he shall voide his bodie. The thrust of the high warde is hardest of all other, nor of it selfe, but because it seemes that the high ward (especially with the right foote before) is verie painfull. And because there are few who have the skil to place themselves as they ought to deliver the thrust in as little time as is possible. The first care therefore in this ward is, so to place himselfe, that he stande steddily. And the syte thereof is in this manner, to wite: To stande with the arme aloft, and as right over the bodie as is possible, to the end he may force on the thrust without drawing back of the arme or loosing of time. And whilest the arme is borne straight on high (to the end it may be borne the more streight, & with lesse paiens) the feete also would stand close and united together, & that because, this ward is rather to strike than to defend, and therefore it is necessarie that it have his increase prepared: so that when the thrust is discharged, he ought therewithall to increase the forefoote so much that it make a reasonable pace, and then to let fal the hand down to the lowe warde, from the which if he would depart againe, and affend to the high ward, he must also retire his forefoot, neer unto the hinder foote, or els the hinderfoote to the forefoot, And in this manner he shall practise to deliver his thrust oftentimes alwaies placing himselfe in this high warde with his feet united, discharging the thrust with the increase of the fore foot. But when it seems tedious and painfull to frame this warde, then he must use, for the lengthninge of his arme, to fasten his hande and take houldefast on some nooke or stafe, that standeth out in a wall, as high as he may lift upp his arme, turning his hand as if he held a sword, for this shall helpe very much to strengthen his arme, and make his bodie apt to stand at this warde. Now when he hath applied this exercise, for a reasonable time, so that he may perceive by himselfe that he is nimble and active in delivering these blowes and thrusts simplie by themselves, then he shall practise to compound them, that is to saie, after a thrust to deliver a right blowe from the wrist, then a reverse, and after that an other thrust, alwaies remembring when he delivereth a blowe from the wrist, after a thrust to compasse his hinderfoote, to the end, the blowe may be the longer: And when, after this right blowe, he would discharge a reverse, he must encrease a slope pace, that presently after it, he maie by the encrease of a streight pace, forse on a stronge thrust underneath. And so to exercise himselfe to deliver manie of those orderlie blowes togeither, but yet alwaies with the true motion of the feet and bodie, and with as great nimblenesse, and in as shorte time as is possible, taking this alwaies for a most sure and certaine rule, that he move the armes & feete, keeping his body firme and stedfast, so that it go not beastly forwarde, (and especially the head being a member of so great importance) but to keepe alwaies his bodie bowed rather backward than forward, neither to turne it but onely in a compasse to voide blowes and thrustes.

More over, it shall not be amisse, after he hath learned to strike, (to the end to strengthen his armes) if he cause an other to force at him, either with a cudgell, or some other heavie thing, both edgeblowes & thrustes, ant that he encounter & sustaine them with a sworde, & ward thrustes by avoyding his bodie, and by encreasing forwardes. And likewise under edge blowes, either strike before they light, or els encounter them on their first partes, with the encrease of a pace, that thereby he may be the more readie to deliver a thrust, and more easily sustaine the blowe. Farther, when he shall perceive, that he hath conveniently qualified and strengthned this instrument of his bodie, it shall remaine, that he onely have recourse in his minde to the fine advertisements, by the which a man obtaineth judgement. And that next, he order and governe his motions according to the learning & meaning of those rules. And afterwardes take advise of himselfe how to strike & defend, knowing the advantage in every perticular blow. And there is no doubt at all, but by this order he shall attaine to that perfection in this Arte which he desireth.

FINIS.

-------------
Keith
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Mon 20 Aug, 2007 9:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

WOW!!!

Thanks for the information! It might take me a few hours to read and reread these posts. Thanks again.

Daniel,

Tell me about it. 3 years of varsity x country and track have really beat up my ankles and knees Worried

RPM
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