Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Exotic European Weaponry. Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Sam N.




Location: Beijing, China
Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 3:19 pm    Post subject: Exotic European Weaponry.         Reply with quote

Recently while watching some old Kung-Fu flicks, a realization struck me: Asia seems to have many odd and exotic forms of weaponry, why don't we?

I mean, they have everything from Shuriken, Kusari-gama, Three-sectional staves, all manner of small concealed weaponry and many weapons that quite frankly, I can't remember the names of!

What odd weapons do we have, I am sure we can more then match the Chinese or Japanese in terms of odd pieces of weaponry.

I am asking to post examples of particularly odd and unique European weaponry, especially "hidden" weapons.

I guess we have the Dueling shield and the Rapier, but what else?

Post!
View user's profile Send private message
Sean Belair
Industry Professional




Joined: 08 Aug 2006

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

pistol shield combo, gun axe combo, the man catcher polearm, the sword breaker
View user's profile Send private message
Kenton Spaulding




Location: Connecticut
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Reading list: 12 books

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have you taken a look at this spotlight article?

http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spot_combo.html
View user's profile Send private message
Sam N.




Location: Beijing, China
Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 6:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good point with the combo weapons, the article was indeed fascinating and the weapons were quite unique. However, do we have any other ones that don't involve gunpowder?
View user's profile Send private message
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam N. wrote:
Good point with the combo weapons, the article was indeed fascinating and the weapons were quite unique. However, do we have any other ones that don't involve gunpowder?


Many of the weapons in the combination weapons article do not utilize gunpowder: at least a third if not a half or more.

.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Michael Clark




Location: Welland, Ontario
Joined: 31 Mar 2007

Posts: 45

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 7:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know it's not all that relevant, but I just had to note it: the three-sectioned staff was more equipment for Wu Shu (a chinese martial art) than a weapon. Though it could have been implemented, it wasn't practical. I apologize if I sound like I'm trying to be a smarty-pants.

I think the main thing to consider is that European warfare was fairly linear, and battles were primarily the concept of armies. That is, many many men, usually in tight formations. The use of the kusari-gama, for instance, would not be of significant function in these situations.

It's also of use to note that technological advance was constant, usually relating with current weapons, and there probably wasn't ever time for someone to come up with a new weapon.. The mode of thought was fairly linear as well: cut with this, bash with that, keep away with this, and above all, don't get hit with any of it in retaliation.

This is just my personal thoughts as to WHY we don't see any fancy "exotic" weapons in comparison to other civilizations. Forgive me if I have no idea what I'm talking about. Personally, I think the double-edged cruciform sword has a level of exoticness to itself.
View user's profile Send private message
Brian Boll




Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 7:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These are from the ARMA pdf of the 1459 Talhoffer book. Some look like specialised duelling weapons.


 Attachment: 81.65 KB
e.JPG


 Attachment: 74.37 KB
f.JPG


 Attachment: 66.66 KB
g.JPG


 Attachment: 104.91 KB
[ Download ]

 Attachment: 74.91 KB
[ Download ]

 Attachment: 76.14 KB
[ Download ]

 Attachment: 76.53 KB
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a couple exotic weapons that you probably don't know about, both of which are from Germany in the 16th century:

A Kriegssichel (War Sickle): http://www.trocadero.com/faganarms/items/298423/en1store.html

The second one is a Wurfkreuz, or throwing cross: http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/2194/16thcge...ospo3.jpg. It's from Lot Nr.3539 of Hermann Historica's Auction 48.
View user's profile Send private message
Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Damn. I was going to mention those as well, but...

...all right. The biggest question now is how exotic is "exotic?" If we're talking about the lay public's definition of exotic, a halberd is actually exotic enough. An axe-head on a long pole with a thrusting spike on top and a hook on the back isn't something you'd find in just about any culture in the world. If that's not enough, look at the military fork, the militarized agricultural flail (which is not the ball-at-the-end-of-a-chain sort of "flail" at all), or the uniquely-shaped head of the military bill. Then there's the parrying dagger with spring-loaded prongs.

And I'm sure we've just barely scratched the surface with all the examples posted here.
View user's profile Send private message
Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Alexandria, VA USA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Reading list: 43 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 4,145

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 10:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Clark wrote:
I think the main thing to consider is that European warfare was fairly linear, and battles were primarily the concept of armies. That is, many many men, usually in tight formations. The use of the kusari-gama, for instance, would not be of significant function in these situations.

It's also of use to note that technological advance was constant, usually relating with current weapons, and there probably wasn't ever time for someone to come up with a new weapon.. The mode of thought was fairly linear as well: cut with this, bash with that, keep away with this, and above all, don't get hit with any of it in retaliation.

This is just my personal thoughts as to WHY we don't see any fancy "exotic" weapons in comparison to other civilizations.


The thing here, though, is that you're kind of comparing apples and oranges. The majority of the "exotic" Asian weapons that we see in "spaghetti eastern" kung fu flicks are not weapons of war. In fact, most of them are not very ancient, either, having existed from the 18th century and later. A number of the really exotic Chinese weapons are from the early 20th century, from what I understand.

So if we look at European weapons from a similar context, I think we can find quite a huge number of exotic ones. Daggers with spring loaded arms to split into three sectioned blades for parrying, shield-gauntlets with blades and hooks that look like something from an H.R. Giger painting, judicial duelling swords with sliding hand guards, pole arms with spring loaded spikes that fire, rapiers with spring loaded arms that appear with the touch of a button to form additional quillons, swords with spring loaded daggers hidden in the hilt, "case" of rapiers where two swords with half hilts fit into one scabbard, forearm shields with blades that spring out like Wolverine's claws, and so much more...

And this doesn't even touch on firearms, which were pretty exotic for most historical eras. I think the reason we don't see so many "exotic" weapons of western culture is because if you did see one in a movie, most people think, "That's just some silly fantasy weapon." Whereas if you devised some sort of silly fantasy weapon and armed Jet Li with it, people would say, "That is the coolest thing ever."

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
George Hill




Location: Atlanta Ga
Joined: 16 May 2005

Posts: 614

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 11:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Exotic European Weaponry.         Reply with quote

Sam N. wrote:
Recently while watching some old Kung-Fu flicks, a realization struck me: Asia seems to have many odd and exotic forms of weaponry, why don't we?


WE DO! I made something of a study of this not that long ago. You name it, I can find you a European equal.

Quote:

I mean, they have everything from Shuriken,

We have Hurlbats. Bigger, better and harder hitting Shuriken

Quote:

Kusari-gama,


We have those too... except the base item is a Poleaxe and not a kama.
Fiore mentions them.
He also describes poleaxes loaded with blinding powder.

Quote:

Three-sectional staves,

The two handed flail is a two section staff. Adding a third is just being showy.

To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania


Last edited by George Hill on Thu 21 Jun, 2007 12:17 am; edited 4 times in total
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Michael Clark




Location: Welland, Ontario
Joined: 31 Mar 2007

Posts: 45

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
. . .shield-gauntlets with blades and hooks that look like something from an H.R. Giger painting

I'm not sure who that is, but it sounds intriguing

Quote:
. . .judicial duelling swords with sliding hand guards. . .

And what would THAT be like?

Quote:
. . .forearm shields with blades that spring out like Wolverine's claws. . .

The 7-year-old boy inside me filled with glee

Quote:
I think the reason we don't see so many "exotic" weapons of western culture is because if you did see one in a movie, most people think, "That's just some silly fantasy weapon." Whereas if you devised some sort of silly fantasy weapon and armed Jet Li with it, people would say, "That is the coolest thing ever."

And by nature of the beast, they'll also say "Man, would I like to use one of those." Media has been a big part in stifling realistic understanding of weapons and combat, afterall.
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Let's not forget weapons like the clubs and the chopper found in the Maciejowski Bible: http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images...tm14vd.gif
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 11:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Also, while it may never have existed, take a look at Fiore's pole axe sword (bottom right guard depicted in the six masters illustration): http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/liberi/liberi00.htm
View user's profile Send private message
Bram Verbeek





Joined: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 217

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 4:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Earlier we have Mace-axes, Falcata, Falx, scythed chariots, incendiary pigs (reputedly, they are of course topped by chinese incediary monkeys), siege towers that reached to 10 stories high, hooks and chains to tow whole ships out of the water and probably a whole lot of things I am forgetting now
View user's profile Send private message
Sam N.




Location: Beijing, China
Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 5:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Here's a couple exotic weapons that you probably don't know about, both of which are from Germany in the 16th century:

A Kriegssichel (War Sickle): http://www.trocadero.com/faganarms/items/298423/en1store.html

The second one is a Wurfkreuz, or throwing cross: http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/2194/16thcge...ospo3.jpg. It's from Lot Nr.3539 of Hermann Historica's Auction 48.


The link to the throwing cross is broken. Could you post another one though? I am really interested in finding out what this weapon looks like!

Anyway, don't worry, I'm just doing this thread for fun. I am curious what sort of weapons we have that even we would consider odd.
View user's profile Send private message
Sam N.




Location: Beijing, China
Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 5:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brian Boll wrote:
These are from the ARMA pdf of the 1459 Talhoffer book. Some look like specialised duelling weapons.


What the heck is that guy wearing Eek!?

I think we would have to say that the medieval scuba-diver takes the prize for strangest thing ever seen in a fechtbuch!

I can almost imagine people using this as proof of aliens Razz...
View user's profile Send private message
Merv Cannon




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 6:09 am    Post subject: Exotic western weapons         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Also, while it may never have existed, take a look at Fiore's pole axe sword (bottom right guard depicted in the six masters illustration): http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/liberi/liberi00.htm


Hi Craig...........Do you know if Liberi calls this weapon a "poleaxe-sword" in the translation himself ? I cant see that it is, myself....it looks very much like a two-handed Boar hunting sword to me. Im no expert here, but I just cant make out the äxe" part ! Looks the same as the boar hunting swords that I've seen in both the shape of the speartip point and the cross bar behind it.
Anyone like to add comment on this ?
Thanks !

Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/

"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 6:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The text accompanying this image says something along the lines of "Excuse this sword for the sword and for the pole-axe/ In weapons and without who for me to use with ease."
View user's profile Send private message
Gary A. Chelette




Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: 29 May 2007
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 337

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 6:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Clark wrote:
I know it's not all that relevant, but I just had to note it: the three-sectioned staff was more equipment for Wu Shu (a chinese martial art) than a weapon.


I took my first black belt test with this weapon many years ago and I had to know it's history and it's use. It was a weapon and was also used to to dislodge riders from their horses.
The Sanjiegun, was also used for defense against spears and other long weapons.it also has the advantage of being used both as a long-range weapon or a short-range weapon acting as an extension of the users arm.

It's a most difficult weapon to use and can be a very beautiful weapon to watch in the hands of a master.

Are you scared, Connor?
No, Cousin Dugal. I'm not!
Don't talk nonsense, man. I peed my kilt the first time I went into battle.
Oh, aye. Angus pees his kilt all the time!
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Exotic European Weaponry.
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum