Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Talhoffer Ueber Alles Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Jeffrey Hull




Location: USA
Joined: 25 Nov 2003

Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2007 3:05 pm    Post subject: Talhoffer Ueber Alles         Reply with quote

Hey Folks

Fight Earnestly – the Fight-Book from 1459 AD by Hans Talhoffer

transcription, translation and commentary by Jeffrey Hull

The Fechtbuch (Fight-Book) from 1459 AD by Hans Talhoffer is truly an uncanny work. In this edition of his work, the fight-master opens a window for us to his world. He shares knowledge from his own field of expertise – the martial arts of Renaissance Europe. Yet he also presents works from masters of the same and other fields – Zwaintzig Ussrichtung (Twenty Directives) by fight-master Johann Liechtenauer; Bellifortis (Battle Force) by military engineer Conrad Kyeser; and Hie Lert (Here Teaches) by astrologer-physiologist Jud Ebreesch. By text and by pictures, numerous diverse and lively scenes are shown that are sometimes quite bizarre – vigorous fighting lessons, for judicial dueling and for battle; war-machines, strange inventions and secret formulas; and treatises upon cosmology and physiology.

http://www.thearma.org/Fight-Earnestly.htm

Good luck,

Happy

Jeffrey Hull

JH

Knightly Dueling - the Fighting Arts of German Chivalry
View user's profile Visit poster's website
David Sutton




Location: Bolton, UK
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Likes: 15 pages
Reading list: 39 books

Posts: 230

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for posting the link Jeffrey all I can say is.......Amazing manuscript Cool , I've gotta print out a hard copy of this but its gonna cost in printer Ink cartridges!! Laughing Out Loud
'Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all'

'To teach superstitions as truth is a most terrible thing'

Hypatia of Alexandria, c400AD


Last edited by David Sutton on Tue 19 Jun, 2007 2:45 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Hugh Knight




Location: San Bernardino, CA
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Reading list: 34 books

Posts: 739

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2007 3:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeffrey,

This is marvelous--thank you! I have been trying to translate this monumental book for several years now and not having great success. I translated Talhoffer's Ambraser Codex and that went pretty well, and I translated most of the fighting plates from this book without too much trouble, but when I tried to translate the large amount of text material in the beginning and end (Liechtenauer, the Kriegsbuch and the health/astrology stuff), I found myself very much at a loss. This is an amazing treasure to have because this has long been my favorite Fechtbuch.

Tell me, where did you get the text you supplied where the book had none, starting from p. 358? I haven't read this in detail yet, so I don't know if you took it from other Fechtbücher or if this is your interpretation of the plates.

Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Christian Henry Tobler
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, CT
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 690

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2007 6:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jeffrey,

I just downloaded this. Thanks for making this available.

I can tell you that the Ebreesch is not a man's name though: it just means 'Hebrew', as that page shows the Hebrew alphabet. Roughly, the passage is saying "Here the Jew teaches Hebrew".

The planetary and anatomical lore is anonymous, and similar to other treatises on these subjects appearing thoughout the century. In particular, the planetary material is part of the Planetenkinder (Children of the Planets) lore that appears all over the place, in particular, the Castle Wolfegg Housebook and various editions of Bellifortis as a preface.

Aside from the book "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook", I can direct you to Marianne Hansen's excellent artwork and expose on the Planetenkinder here: http://www.billyandcharlie.com/planets/


All the best,

Christian

Christian Henry Tobler
Order of Selohaar

Freelance Academy Press: Books on Western Martial Arts and Historical Swordsmanship

Author, In Saint George's Name: An Anthology of Medieval German Fighting Arts
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeffrey-

Thank you for making this available. It is greatly appreciated.

-Steven H

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Hugh Knight




Location: San Bernardino, CA
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Reading list: 34 books

Posts: 739

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 1:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,

I'm still digesting your work, but I've come across another question: On p. 377 you talking about breaching (isn't it breaking?) the four openings with Duplieren and Mutieren. You say that if he's hard in the bind you "duplicate" your strike to another high opening, and you say this is an Oberhau. But isn't the Duplieren really a kind of Winden? You remain am Schwert the entire time and to me, Oberhau implies cutting without being bound. What am I missing here? Am I being too rigid in my definition of an Oberhau?

Likewise, as regards the Mutieren: Ringeck says: "If you bind against his sword, with an Oberhau or otherwise, wind the short edge at his sword, raise your arms and thrust at the lower opening from the outside along his blade." But you say that the Mutieren is a Sturzhau which, in his 1467 book, Talhoffer clearly shows as a downward cut with the false edge (plate 2), and this notion of it being a cut is, as you know, supported by the fact that it's called a "hau", whereas a thrust would be called a Stiche. Therefore, you seem to be suggesting that Talhoffer interepreted the Mutieren as a cut rather than the thrust we see it to be in other sources. Two question arise, then: First, am I correct that you are interepreting what Talhoffer wrote to say that the Mutieren is a cut, and second, what has lead you to that conclusion?

Thanks, I look forward to reading your insights.

Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Reinier van Noort





Joined: 13 Dec 2006

Posts: 165

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 1:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Like the others said, great work, thanks a lot! This sure saves me a lot of trouble and time Big Grin
School voor Historische Schermkunsten

www.bruchius.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Alberto Dainese




Location: Padova - Italy
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Reading list: 14 books

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 2:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very well done Big Grin the pictures are astonishing Surprised

thanks for sharing!
View user's profile Send private message
Hugh Knight




Location: San Bernardino, CA
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Reading list: 34 books

Posts: 739

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 3:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jeffrey,

In looking at the Bibliography of your document I see a number of sources that sound interesting but which I've been unable to find, specifically those published by something called "Armeria" and something called "Ragnarok Works". Can you tell me where I can locate these sources? Thanks!

Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Talhoffer Ueber Alles
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum