[Anthony Clipsom]

I think we should be cautious about calling this a broigne. I am not clear a definite period defininition of a a broigne exists. The word is is a relative of Middle English brinnie, meaning a mail shirt.. The modern (ish) definition used by 19th century antiquarians was a leather or cloth garment to which metal plates or rings were sewn. So perhaps this would fit in the general category of broignes, perhaps not.

Incidentally, thanks for the Viollet le Duc illustrations. The man was a superb illustrator. But less solid on the history at times

[Len Parker]

Close-up: https://warfare.ueuo.com/12/France-Vezelay-Narthex_Tympanum_Lintel-right-dt-lg.htm

[Len Parker]

The Irish have luirigh tredhualach: https://www.jstor.org/stable/30007369

You can see the sculpture matches the fragments: https://myArmoury.com/talk/files/myarmory_pic_to_post_426.jpg

Some latticework on what I think is a Celtic saddle above the arch:
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/the-triumphal-arch-of-orange-is-characteristic-of-roman-news-photo/610694696?adppopup=true

[Dan Howard]

[Anthony Clipsom]

Interestingly, Bayeux Tapestry fever has thrown up this article

https://www.medievalists.net/2026/09/the-broigne-what-armour-do-you-see-in-the-bayeux-tapestry/

It's based on an academic piece which is cited at the end. Personally, I think I will stick with the interpretation that the Bayeux Tapestry shows stylised mail armour.

[Dan Howard]

[Bartek Strojek]

The argument about mail being rigid and easily folding into a bundle doesn't hold all that well either, we know that there were weaves of mail that weren't very flexible.

Same with argument about mail being hard to take off from fallen wearer - "Perceval" by Chretien de Troyes is pretty famous poem, and there's a passage there about mail being hard to remove if someone has no idea how to do it.

[Len Parker]

Hunting in leather:

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjUD8Ggh__Mn8FlC_kNYPOauAj_sfMhDfjnaJu9G0XrlAech_GAaoPRmbYuthrXrD9sgG7OpHRNnv_8QNsnQN34c15aSaWbEpvwv_YG4DaJGVK6Xeu72P9njan8OpNC1oO788hJPZBMD9A0/s2048/IMG_1136.JPG From: https://atlas-roman.blogspot.com/2020/10/vezelay-musee-de-luvre-viollet-le-duc.html

[Len Parker]

Another one with a dog, just to be sure it isn't Roland sounding his horn:
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/84/gallery/

The question is how far does this type of leather armour go back? John of Salisbury has the English wearing straps of tough hide on their chests, fighting against the Welsh in 1065.

The Tain Bo Cuailnge has a warrior wearing a trebraid tunic. Also, Cuchulain is wearing seven-score waxed, boardlike tunics that are being held under cords and strings.

I'm seeing vertical lines and cross-hatching:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Celtic/comments/q4lcl7/gold_gaulish_statuette_of_a_man_from_le_mans/

[Dan Howard]

Cross-hatching is a fairly common method of rendering mail in an illustration.

[Len Parker]

It doesn't look like maille or tartan. It looks like Ian Heath's simple drawing of the Vezelay sculpture: https://warfare.ueuo.com/WRG/Feudal-22-25-Infantrymen-12C.htm

If this is the "chords and strings" of Cuchulainn's armour, then it's not standalone leather armour.

[Dan Howard]

If you show mail to a classroom full of art students and ask them to draw it, they will all draw it differently and few of the renderings will look like mail. Some will draw circles, some will draw cross-hatching, some will try and draw individual links, some will simply shade it.