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Thomas La.





Joined: 05 Jun 2018

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat 09 Jun, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Requesting assistance in assembling 13th century French kit         Reply with quote

Greetings everyone! Big Grin

The past few months I have been conducting research on constructing my own medieval hard and soft kit and I have decided based on personal preferences, ancestral and financial reasons to recreate a mid 13th century French knight, using the Morgan/Maciejowski Bible as my main reference.

While I've certainly learned a lot (a lot more to learn!), it seems like a bit of a struggle in trying to find authentic pictures or fabric sewing/cutting patterns. For example, I'll look up a video on youtube that appears to be authentic, but then they put on a maille coif that isn't integrated with a rounded bottom. I look up videos on how braies are worn with chausses and I get 3 drastically different patterns. The helmet will have a brass cross in the center. A templar knight with a giant red cross in the center of his surcoat....argh!

If anyone had resources on hand or could point out where I'm going wrong, I would greatly appreciate it.

The soft kit I'm mostly making myself to ensure its comfortable and properly fits. As suggested, I am completing this before attempting any actual armor purchases.

1x white linen tunic that comes to the knees
1x white long braies
2x blue woolen chausses (from what I understand, blue dye started to become very popular in the 13th century, especially in France. What kind of wool should I look for? I would need to order it online in bulk)
2x turnshoes
http://allbeststuff.com/Leather-Products/medi...rvik-Style
1x belt (no idea what an authentic belt looked like)
1x gambeson (having a lot of trouble finding a pattern online, plus I heard it suggested that gambesons for knights were thinner than those used by infantry, and all the ones I see online make you look like the Michelin man)

Meanwhile, the hard kit would almost entirely bought online:

2x maille chausses

1x maille haberauk with integrated coif, side ventail, and mittens (what size rings should I look for? problably going to buy riveted from allbeststuff)

1x Maciejowski helmet (what kind of paint should I use?)

1x heraldic surcoat (I already designed the CoA, but I have no idea how such a device was placed on a surcoat. Stenciled? Painted? Sewed on?)

1x heater shield (found a how to online)

1x arming sword, sheathe, and belt (suggestions?)

Thank you for your time!



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Ed W.




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 27 Mar 2016

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sat 09 Jun, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Thomas,

There's a book called 'the medieval tailor's assistant', by Sarah Thursfield. If you're feeling a bit overwhelmed by the volume of stuff on the internet (some good, some bad, and most of it terrible) I'd suggest investing in a copy.

Regarding gambesons (to go under mail), you're right that off the shelf commercial offerings tend to be far too bulky. There is debate whether gambesons/aketons were used under mail at all in the mid 13th century. No need to revisit this debate here, so here's links to a couple of previous threads on this topic

http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=34802&highlight=
http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=34599&highlight=

hope this helps,

Ed.
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Håvard Kongsrud




Location: Norge
Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 59

PostPosted: Tue 12 Jun, 2018 6:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This depend on your budget and how autentic you want to go.

White linen tunic - I would suggest a pattern from the french st Louis-tunic.
blue woolen chausses - 1,5 metres of some 2/2 twill would take you a long way, cut on the bias. Go for a grayish blue that look like woad.
turnshoes - your allbeststuff-link does not show turnshoes.
belt - narrow and long, with D-buckle.
gambeson - sew yourself or be prepared to re-taylor a commercial one.
maille - demi riveted, round rivets. Be prepared to re-taylor it.
heraldic surcoat - sew it on like appliqué
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Thomas La.





Joined: 05 Jun 2018

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue 12 Jun, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you, both of you.

I went ahead and bought The Medieval Tailor's Assistant and it should get here in a few days. I already bought this pattern set about a month ago when I really had a difficult time looking for patterns. Mostly using it for the braies, shirt, chausses, and the two piece coif (I saw the same one in the Maciejowski Bible worn by a helmetless knight):
https://www.patternsoftime.com/proddetail.php?prod=RC024

As for the wool fabric, would something like this work out?
https://www.moodfabrics.com/dark-navy-ultra-soft-wool-twill-315184

Another question: I have a pretty big head. At my eyebrows it is a little over 24 inches / 61 cm and all the Maciejowski helms I can find have a diameter of 8 inches. Is that too snug if I plan on wearing a cloth coif + maille coif?
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Alan E




Location: UK
Joined: 21 Jan 2016

Posts: 45

PostPosted: Wed 13 Jun, 2018 3:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas La. wrote:
Thank you, both of you.

I went ahead and bought The Medieval Tailor's Assistant and it should get here in a few days. I already bought this pattern set about a month ago when I really had a difficult time looking for patterns. Mostly using it for the braies, shirt, chausses, and the two piece coif (I saw the same one in the Maciejowski Bible worn by a helmetless knight):
https://www.patternsoftime.com/proddetail.php?prod=RC024

As for the wool fabric, would something like this work out?
https://www.moodfabrics.com/dark-navy-ultra-soft-wool-twill-315184

Another question: I have a pretty big head. At my eyebrows it is a little over 24 inches / 61 cm and all the Maciejowski helms I can find have a diameter of 8 inches. Is that too snug if I plan on wearing a cloth coif + maille coif?

I'd suggest taking a look at this thread http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=36537

Member of Exiles Medieval Martial Arts.
Currently teaching Fiore's art in Ceredigion
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Joshua Waters




Location: South Carolina
Joined: 15 Dec 2013

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Wed 13 Jun, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you are still looking for a helmet, I cannot recommend Patryk Nieczarowski enough. His early style helms are fantastic, and great quality. And he has made Maciejowski style helms before.
Not too long ago I had a raised conical helm commissioned with him, and it turned out fantastic.



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