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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Feb, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Question about Petersen type L pommels...         Reply with quote

So, I found a bunch of pics of bronze and copper Petersen type L pommels which I'm posting. The question I have is; have any bronze or copper pommel bars or guards been found? Or would these pommels have been attached to an iron pommel bar with an iron guard? Weird. Why would only the pommels survive if all the hilt elements were made of bronze or copper?


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Petr Florianek
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Tim!
You found quite a number of those!
My guess would be that it rested on iron upper guard. I was looking for bronze viking age sword furnitures several times and i found none of type L, except those loose pommels.

I GUESS, that iron is used for structural reasons and bronze for pommel as easier way to make them hollow and better surface for gilding

Have a great time
Petr
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Ryan Renfro




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PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb, 2012 8:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is a copper-alloy lower guard at the British Museum: http://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts/record/id/55090
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Petr Florianek
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for this one! very nice but probably from type O sword
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Ryan Renfro




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PostPosted: Tue 07 Feb, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just type L of course, sorry.

I'm sure I've seen quite a few type L hilts where the iron/steel upper and lower guards have survived without the pommel. In that instance could it have been organic? You're probably right, Petr, in that it would be easier to cast the complex pommel shape out of copper/bronze, whereas the upper and lower guards could just be forged into shape.
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Shane Allee
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PostPosted: Wed 08 Feb, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

At one time I had better quality pics of this sword, but not sure anymore. Recall it being sold ten plus years ago on ebay.

Shane



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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Wed 08 Feb, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shane Allee wrote:
At one time I had better quality pics of this sword, but not sure anymore. Recall it being sold ten plus years ago on ebay.

Shane


Nice one! Could you tell if the pommel was non ferrous and the rest of the hilt ferrous with the better quality pics?
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Feb, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I cannot add anything about combinations of ferrous upper and lower guard and coper alloy pommel caps, but the type of sword that this kind of pommel cap comes from seems to me to be the Wallingford Bridge type. It is a type that was common in brittain at the time of the Danelag and seems to be a result of a mix of anglo saxon and norse styles (a mating of type L and type R and/orS). Significant for the Wallingford bridge type is the curved upper and lower guard, following the example of type L hilts, and the rounder outline of the pommel cap, as found on type R and S hilts (three or five lobed)

The famous "viking" sword from the River Witham is of this type.
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Thu 09 Feb, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Tim,

Take a look at this sword:
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manu...pommel.jpg
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manu...d_tang.jpg
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manu...rtment.jpg

As shown here: http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manu..._sword.htm

Looks to me like the pommel and upper guard are non-ferrous whereas the lower guard is ferrous.

Regards, JD
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Thu 09 Feb, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great stuff JD. Thanks. At least there is one example of a ferrous guard with non ferrous pommel and pommel bar. The picture Shane posted is tought to tell. Interesting. I would imagine some would have been made with ferrous pommel bars and non ferrous pommels. Tough to tell with only a couple examples...
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