[Raymond R]

I've recently seen members of the fencing group I'm in use a rather... unorthodox... technique. Using wooden wasters during sparring practice, I saw "Bob" grab the upper two thirds of the blade (we're assuing the Oakeshott Type XVIII), and render his opponent's sword immobile in order to make a draw cut. Unorthodox? or impossible/improbable for a swordfight.

[Mark Shier]

Fiore and other medieval manuals show this technique.
mark

[Michael Olsen]

Just to clarify, whose blade did "Bob" grab? His own, or his opponents? And where did he grab it (I know you said 'upper', but that term gets thrown around to both ends of the sword sometimes) - near the hilt, or near the tip?

Sorry, I'm a bit slow today.

[Micha Hofmann]

This "grabbing the blade at the weak" ( I assume that you mean that, Raymond ), has caused a lot of discussion between my sparring partners and me in the past. IMO it happens the more often, the slower and the more controlled the sparring is done.
I've seen a lot of people grab a "50% speed fought, considering safety" blunt reenactment blade with 100% of their speed. I doubt this would work against a sharp blade wielded by someone with real hostile intentions.

It might work against a blade that's static in the bind, when it's wielder is not paying attention for a split second. But it is still a very risky technique I would not try in a duel with sharps.

But as I consider myself open to different opinions... bring it on, gentlemen.

I would especially like to know, where / if some historical sources mention something like this.
Mark, do you have any pictures or quotes of ( preferably german ) manuals?

[Lafayette C Curtis]

I'm also curious about this, mostly because I still can't visualize what's happening in sufficient detail. Is "Bob" grabbing a sword in the middle of a cut or in a bind? If it's the second, I don't see how it'll be any different from half-swording, but if the first then I suppose he would have got half his hand cut off should he try it in a fight with sharps.

[Bill Grandy]

Grasping the opponent's blade is not impossible, and even shown in the historical fencing treatises. But there are a number of things that need to be kept in mind here. First, the blade must be immoble (i.e. after your blades have met in the bind, or if your opponent has the sword pointing forward but still). Second, it is not something you do where you hold onto the blade and simply stand still. You would grasp the blade just for a long enough moment that you can strike. If you just hold the blade, your opponent can painfully twist the sword out of your hand.

Now, it should also be kept in mind that sometimes people overdo the whole grabbing the blade business because they aren't faced with the threat of a real, sharpened blade in a real, life or death situation. Because of that I've noticed a number of people who grab blades all the time, which I would highly discourage. But used judiciously in the correct circumstances, it can be effective.

[Mark Shier]

Sorry, I don't do German sword arts. Take a look at the Exiles site http://www.the-exiles.org/FioreProject/Project.htm or http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/ for Fiore translations.
The technique is in the the first few plays of the Giocco Largo section. The text says (and I can't remember which translation it is):
"My Master, who is before, taught me that when I am crossed in the middle of the blade, I have to immediately step forward (acresser inanci) and grab his sword, to wound with a cut or a thrust. Also, I can incapacitate his leg in the way you can see drawn here by injuring him with my foot over the back of the leg or under the knee."
Fiore also shows halfswording, and grabbing your opponent's knife blade.
mark

[Lafayette C Curtis]

[Jared Smith]

Ringeck describes a disarm tactic where the aggressor grasps both swords at the location where they are crossed (in bind.) I would hate to do this with my bare hands, but am interested in interpretations of the move! My interpretation of it is that the disarm is achieved by tucking the opponents tip under the arm and twisting somehow.

[Bill Grandy]

[Lafayette C Curtis]

[John H]

In my experience, most effective blade grabbing takes place when your opponent's sword is bound up or thrusting. Typically you are grabbing the flat of the blade between the heel of your palm and your fingertips, so that you are not actually touching the blade. It is extremely difficult to wrench your sword free from someone gripping it thus, especially when that person is doing nasty things with his own sword, such as knocking in your teeth with the guard or pommel.

[Raymond R]

So apparently it is a valid technique, though rare. when judging such bouts, how should I make considerations for wrenching (when the grabee twists, pulls and makes a valid effort at trying to free himself before his opponent can make his move)?

[Lafayette C Curtis]

No, it's not rare at all. I expect it would be a rather common solution for escaping from a bind or continuing an attack that is meant to go through a bind. Not necessarily the most common, though.

The major consideration you have to make is whether the blade is moving or stationary. If the grabber catches the blade in the middle of a cut, you can rule that his off hand is gone. If he grabs from a bind, though, you can judge it a legal grab. You should consider attempts to free the sword from the grab, but not in any special way--just let the two move on and see which one comes first: the draw cut or the escape.

[Michal Plezia]

And have you got any good ideas how to hold the blade during half-sword techniques without cutting my own hand?
Maybe you can show it on the picture?

[Martin Wallgren]

[Chad Arnow]

[Martin Wallgren]

[Kel Rekuta]