Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Pikemen versus archers Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 
Author Message
James R





Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Edelson wrote:
Randall,

To go along with that, it takes a lot less deaths to scatter a formation that is not charging than one that is. To stand idly by while your fellow soldiers die one by one is very demoralizing. It takes a lot of maneuvering to get units into position, and that lag can be exploited by archers.


You know, that is a fairly universal tactic among the great cavalry commanders, and those commanders who may not have been cavalrymen personally but recognized their value. There is a morale and courage "bonus" to attacking, and commanders from Alexander to Patton were aware of it. A charging horse (or even a charging man) can cover a lot of ground, fast, and unless there are disciplined pikemen (or riflemen) to stop them, a cavalry wedge will break through the defending formation.

It is still good military tactics today...there is a big difference between letting the enemy mortar your base every night while you endure it, v/s going out there and attacking him.
View user's profile Send private message
Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,698

PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randall Moffett wrote:
I agree that moral need be thrown in the equation. If you see the arrow storm or 5-10 percent of the men around you killed anyone might wonder if they had made a good choice going to war today.


Mikael Ranelius wrote:
Judging from the sources, the english arrows could harm the armoured men-at-arms of the french and other enemies. Of course advanced armour will protect you to a much higher degree than if lighly armoured or unarmoured, but still an armoured man was far from invurnable, although armour developed during the 15th century to be almost, and I mean almost, arrow-proof.


That's the point. Arrows would seldom penetrate good plate or plate-and-mail armor, with the result that only a small fraction of the dismounted men-at-arms would have been killed in the advance. But the morale impact of these few kills is far greater than what mere numbers would indicate, since it forced the whole formation of men-at-arms to be either more wary--therefore surrendering the tactical initiative--or to break up and charge pell-mell in an attempt to come to grips with the archers as quickly as possible, therefore destroying their formation and tactical cohesion. In either case the arrow storm would have placed the English longbowmen and men-at-arms in an advantageous situation should they wish to initiate hand-to-hand combat.

As for the interactions in the ancient world, I think the most important thing was that Alexander was smart enough to place his strongest troops against the enemy's weakest, and that included not keeping his pezetairoi pikemen within the reach of his enemy's arrows for too long. Still, he was sufficiently impressed by Persian and Indian archery that towards the end of his life he began to develop an experimental phalanx with pikemen in front and archers in the rear. His successors abandoned this experiment, probably because good pikemen were few and expensive and they had to concentrate the pikes they had into formations large and strong enough to act as a powerful shock force.

Among the Successors, the Ptolemaics and the Seleucids probably had the advantage in archery due to their Egyptian and Syrian archers. Still, they used their archers mostly in a supporting role, and I'm not sure whether this was because the pikemen's armor, shields, and pikestaffs were enough to stop most arrows from harming them or because the Successor generals were not used to thinking of archery as the decisive element of their tactical system.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Pikemen versus archers
Page 4 of 4 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum