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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 9:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:

I didn't even think about making a SECOND order with Patrick Barta when my name comes up. It's unfortunate but I just can's see myself parting with more than $5000.00 at one given point which would invariably be the case if I was to commission two swords.


Indeed. The main reason why I agreed to change the current order to a celtic sword was mainly an issue of cost. The price was simply more doable for me right now. Even then it neccessitated the sale of another fine piece from my collection.

Quote:
I say this is unfortunate because this will likely by my only chance to abtain one of his works and I believe that really only Mr. Barta and Peter Johnsson have the most sufficient knowledge of my period of interest to make the highest eschelon of high middle age swords. There seem to be a few more smiths out there with a keen knowledge of renessaince weapon so folks interested in this period should consider themselves lucky..


Unfortunately I have to agree with you. I've seen many other custom makers who think they have a grasp on the medieval sword but really don't. They don't seem to put as much study into swords of that period as they do later compound-hilted designs, or even earlier viking era designs, etc. They don't see them as visually interesting and I've had more than one maker tell me, "There just isn't much going on with those swords." Well, there's quite a bit going on there, it's just more subtle than the more outwardly complex stuff. This attitude is unfortunately reflected in the quality of the product. This is the main reason I'm such a big proponent of Albions work. The swords may not be unique custom creations but at least they "get" those aspects.


Quote:
Plus, I love inlay- especially in the blade and I have strong opinions regarding what I feel is a dearth of this technique in modern reproductions, including custom pieces. Patrick has assured me- and I fully trust that he has the know how to execute iron inlay in the blade of the sword I will commission.


I would love to see more correct blade inlay too. I'd love to have Peter Johnsson make me a sword similar in design to the Albion Reeve, but with the mass of my Big Johnsson, decorated with perhaps an Ulfberht inlay on the blade and some commensurate inlay on the guard and pommel, all topped off with a tooled leather scabbard. Yum, yum.

Quote:
I wait in anticipation to see your custom axe!


As do I. It should be very soon now!
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 11:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes Patrick- It would be nice if more smiths would put an emphasis on early middle age weaponry.

I can say that I am lucky that my period of interest does allow me to steer clear of pattern welded blades- as by 1000 homogenous steel becomes more the norm. I do need however, at least one 5 or 7 lobed pommel viking sword- though I will only accept a pattern-welded blade- but that's for much later.

My custom sword will utilize non-twisted iron inlay of a smaller and neater style which is featured in the 8 swords (dated 1100+/-) of the +GECILINMEFECIT+ group. The ulfberhts use a larger font and- I think- twisted wire inlay of a less neat nature and are dated a little earlier. I would like to one day have a sword using this type of inlay also.

Next I am interested in the latten words or symbols type of blade inlay that shows up around as early as 1100 and continue into the 14th century in various forms. (I am quoting this dating off the top of my head and may be incorrect). This inlay may be a bit easier on the smith as it is felt that this is applied post heat treat.

I think there are a few silver and tin inlayed blades out there as well as a very few copper blade inlays. (Copper seems to be very popular in the hilt but not the blade.)

And Patrick how could you forgot the niello!!- You need a viking transitional/middle age piece with iron inlayed blade, copper and silver inlayed hilt with niello and a tooled leather scabbard. (Homer Simpson lustful gargling noice Eek! ) (or is that what I need?)

Thanks,
Jeremy


Last edited by Jeremy V. Krause on Fri 30 Mar, 2007 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd love to have Peter Johnsson make me a sword similar in design to the Albion Reeve, but with the mass of my Big Johnsson

Correct me if I am wrong, since they are your swords, but I was under the impression your Big Johnsson (That'll never get old Laughing Out Loud ) pretty much WAS a beefier Reeve or Bayeux in design...
As I was saying in one of our emails, I'd love to see Albion release a big beefy type X with a tea cozy pommel in their NG line.

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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Robin,

I can't say how the Big Johnsson handles (maybe one day I'll get to wrap my hands round the Johnsson) but I share your desire for a type X (or in my book a Xa or XI) with a tea cozy pommel. The good news is that Peter has said that a NG with tea cozy will come out at some point or another.

I also have to commend your choice of the Senlac. I own a Norman and it is probably the favorite sword in my collection- even above the Reeve which I also have. I think it's the grip of the Norman that gets me- it has an acute oblong shape and sits so nice in the hand. I would be willing to bet that the Senlac shares the grip with the Norman. The Reeve is also great but I have something for the Norman. I would like to handle the Hospitaller-especially since I named it.

Robin, I would like to give some un-asked for advice. Stop putting your money in lower end items- you'll just be frustrated with them as your collection evolves. I give you these words because I have a feeling you have a deep appreciation of quality, (and good taste in time periods). I have a Del tin that kind of just sits there and is collecting rust- I am even kind of bothered that my A&A Iberian mace is cast and not forged as this is evident when looking at it. I am really trying to look at only buying items that I believe I will be happy with in the future. It's good to just save your money longer. And maybe just maybe sock away that money for the AT and put it towards an Albion or custom piece because the difference IS noticable. Now if you are looking for something to cut with and historical accuracy is not as important then you should be fine.

My 2 cents,

Jeremy
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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
Robin, I would like to give some un-asked for advice. Stop putting your money in lower end items- you'll just be frustrated with them as your collection evolves. I give you these words because I have a feeling you have a deep appreciation of quality, (and good taste in time periods). I have a Del tin that kind of just sits there and is collecting rust- I am even kind of bothered that my A&A Iberian mace is cast and not forged as this is evident when looking at it. I am really trying to look at only buying items that I believe I will be happy with in the future. It's good to just save your money longer. And maybe just maybe sock away that money for the AT and put it towards an Albion or custom piece because the difference IS noticable. Now if you are looking for something to cut with and historical accuracy is not as important then you should be fine.

First of all, allow me to say thank you. Your kind words are much appreciated...
Now about the AT... I was primarily interested in it after handling one that a KSCA in my shire has. I loved the balance. Light, balanced, but still with authority. However, historical accuracy is very important to me. Which is one of the reasons I want an ATrim. It'll be a sword I won't feel bad beating the crap out of in my back yard Laughing Out Loud I would cry if I knicked my Albions, doubly so with a custom. Not so much with a ATrim. Now I know this sentiment might not win me some friends, but to me an ATrim is ultimately the best of the best, top of the class beater IMHO. Toughness and performance at the expense of accuracy. In essence, it would be the red-headed stepchild of my collection. There to take the beatings Big Grin
That and there is a lack of really good type X and Xa's (and the occasionally XI's) that interest me on the production market. A Bayeux or Norman would be kinda redundant (although I may still get a Bayeux one day, if the opportunity presents itself, and I have the cash).
And lets not forget variety. I like several of the Albions (Templar, Knight, and Thegn pop into my head right off, I am sure there are others), so I am sure eventually my collection will be full of them. So it wouldn't hurt to have an AT thrown in there for spice...

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Bob Burns




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 6:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly, you are more than Welcome, your a wonderful friend!

I have been in the "wait" situation for one last item from Arms & Armor, a polearm, a Sparth Axe with a tempered edge to be specific and it's a couple of weeks away yet. I just completed the final "Sword Wait" situation for a long time a couple of weeks ago after receiving my custom blade Black Prince from Arms & Armor and WOW was it ever worth the wait Exclamation

The distal 2/3 of the blade is more narrow than usual and twice as thick, resulting in a very stout thrusting blade while still maintaining all the grace and agility that the Black Prince from Arms & Armor is renown for and am I ever ecstatic about this sword!

It will be a long time before I order another sword, as I now have a dozen high end production swords and six swords from Hanwei and Windlass.

So I guess I will observe my hobbyist comrades go through the waiting periods now.

Bob
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 7:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin Smith wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, since they are your swords, but I was under the impression your Big Johnsson (That'll never get old Laughing Out Loud ) pretty much WAS a beefier Reeve or Bayeux in design...
As I was saying in one of our emails, I'd love to see Albion release a big beefy type X with a tea cozy pommel in their NG line.



They are indeed the same general type of sword, With the Big J on the higher end of the mass scale and the Reeve being at the lighter. The Reeve is a very fine sword indeed, but I personally prefer a sword with a bit more mass. Something with more of a shield-splitter feel rather than a butcher knife. While the Big J has that sense of mass it also has outstanding dynamic properties and gives up nothing in the handling department. The main stylistic difference lies in the furniture.

The Big Js furniture, with it's various facets and bevels, puts the sword in the 13th century. Things like the beveled edges on the pommel and the guards octagonal cross-section are features typically found on swords of this time frame.


The Reeves furniture is of a distinctly 10th-11th century style, with the guards squarish cross-section and the brazil-nut pommel.


While the Big J is the sword I always dreamed of owning as a child and will undoubtedly remain my favorite for that reason, I would like to have a similar sword with distinctly 10th-11th century aesthetics. I can wear the Big J with my 11th century kit and 99.9% of the people I'd meet won't know the difference, but it bugs me. Big Grin
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy wrote:
And Patrick how could you forgot the niello!!- You need a viking transitional/middle age piece with iron inlayed blade, copper and silver inlayed hilt with niello and a tooled leather scabbard. (Homer Simpson lustful gargling noice ) (or is that what I need?)


Actually that description is very close to my original order with Patrick Barta. Since I already have one nice example of a viking age sword in Albions Jarl (with none of the original examples on which it's based having pattern-welded blades) That was one incentive to change the order. Not to mention the cost was almost cut in half. I would like to have a nordic style sword like that, but it isn't on my list of "must haves" at this point. A migration era sword is a more important addition.
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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 7:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
The Reeve is a very fine sword indeed, but I personally prefer a sword with a bit more mass. Something with more of a shield-splitter feel rather than a butcher knife. While the Big J has that sense of mass it also has outstanding dynamic properties and gives up nothing in the handling department.

Thats why I want them to add a beefy type X to the line up. Both of their type X's are light examples of the type. And a tea cozy makes perfect sense, as they don't have one in the line up, and the market seems to really want one...
Quote:
While the Big J is the sword I always dreamed of owning as a child and will undoubtedly remain my favorite for that reason, I would like to have a similar sword with distinctly 10th-11th century aesthetics. I can wear the Big J with my 11th century kit and 99.9% of the people I'd meet won't know the difference, but it bugs me.

And yet you think it would be redundant of me to own the Reeve and still want to get a Bayeux down the road??? Razz

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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin,

The reason I brought up my Norman is because the Senlac is virtually the same sword. You will love it. If you want to know about the Templar I can speak to this as I also own one of these. I love the handling characteristics of the Templar- It has a very (long) feeling in the blade, and the cross section is more 3d if that makes any sense than the Norman/Senlac or Reeve. The fuller is quite deep. It's a great sword.

I must say, however, that I need to do some research and probably ask Albion about the inspiration of the Templar because the pairing of the rather early blade and the- to me at least- seeming 13 c. hilt doesn't seem to make sense. I can't really say to what time period to date this sword and that bothers me. I am afraid that maybe the Templar may be a design which is thought to appeal to the customer at the expense of historical accuracy. I suspect that part of the problem is that ALL of my resources are Oakeshott and I know that Peter has seen a number of pieces that can't be found in his works. I think that I have read that the Templar may be dated to the early 12th. to all the way up until 1225. I just don't have a good handle on this design. Historical accuracy is my #1 concern- I don't care if the sword loods cool if it is without historical precedent. The Templar is a noble and strong looking sword but I really can't think of seeing anything like it in the books.

So Patrick or Robin if you have any thoughts about this please share. And if Peter, you happen to read this please contribute.

I really want to flesh out the time period 1050-1200 in my collection before I move on. Yes, I know I got a Solingen but I can explain. . .

Oh, and Robin please let us know about the AT. I wil cut with my Albion's but I really don't think I would cut with a Patrick Barta or PJ- well maybe if I felt secure about the blade geometry. I will cut with the Reeve but it does have a rather slim blade.

Thanks,
Jeremy
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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 9:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
So Patrick or Robin if you have any thoughts about this please share. And if Peter, you happen to read this please contribute.
Patrick, please correct me if I am wrong, but I'd place the sword very early 13th say right at 1200+/-10 years. The Xa was in use up to the 13th century, albeit not as a cutting edge blade (if you'll pardon the pun). The bow tie cross and beveled pommel are both primarily 13th century designs. Rehilting of older blades was still quite common at this time I believe... But I am no expert...
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Once again, we're getting away from the original intent of this thread. Can we get back to the original topic, please? Happy
Happy

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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
So Patrick or Robin if you have any thoughts about this please share. And if Peter, you happen to read this please contribute.


I'd be happy to, but since I've had enough of senseless micro-management I'm done with this thread. (which wasn't exactly high on educational value in it's original topic anyway)

Feel free to shoot me an e-mail if you want to continue the discussion.
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
I'd be happy to, but since I've had enough of senseless micro-management I'm done with this thread. (which wasn't exactly high on educational value in it's original topic anyway)

Feel free to shoot me an e-mail if you want to continue the discussion.


Patrick,
As you're no doubt aware, your comments are inappropriate. From our Rules of Conduct:

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Try not to drift off-topic with a topic's conversation. Please don't join in with off-topic discussion even if others are. Instead, try starting a new topic and linking to it. Off-topic posts may get deleted or split from their originating topic.


and:

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It is inappropriate for you to debate or argue with a moderatorís actions. If you would like to discuss such actions or get further clarification on the matter, you must do so by messaging the moderating privately. Do not clutter the public forum with arguments or disagreements. Doing so will result in administrative action.


Discussing the off-topic elements in this thread is appropriate for this site, just not for this thread.

Happy

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PostPosted: Sat 31 Mar, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
I'd be happy to, but since I've had enough of senseless micro-management I'm done with this thread. (which wasn't exactly high on educational value in it's original topic anyway)

And I've had enough of the snide remarks from you. There will be no more micro-management of you. I'm taking a much broader approach and revoking your posting privileges so I don't have to read these kinds of remarks any longer. Hell, Patrick, you know better, man. I really do want your presence here, but I just don't have it in me to deal with this kind of stuff any longer. At the end of the day, it just isn't worth it for me. You're welcome back at any time should you want to convince me that this type of stuff will stop.

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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: The wait...         Reply with quote

Robin Smith wrote:
Anyway, I wanted to know what other people do when they're waiting for new blades? Do you find yourself reading the site over and over again? Do you search the web for any passing reference in the forums about your new toys? What helps make the wait more endurable?


The wait is typically agony. Furthermore, you have committed the money and depending upon finances may not be able to do other things while the wait continues. The wait for my Munich was almost 2 years (was 21 months actually.) The trade off there was that I got it for $300 less than I would have if I had waited for the production phase to order it.

The web site really does not get updated much until the prototype is finished and first deliveries begin to ship. Mine shipped something like 5 days after the web site was finally updated.

Since your order is in production, you really do not have an epoch to wait. You could search the forums on things that will very soon come to mind; how to make a scabbard, other dress items appropriate for a complete kit appropriate to the period of the sword, etc. As a minimum, start saving some soft (milk jugs etc,) cutting targets!

Just suggestions anyway. By the way, your choice really appeals to my preference of period. I have been thinking hard of getting a Bayeux or Reeve.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
The wait is typically agony. Furthermore, you have committed the money and depending upon finances may not be able to do other things while the wait continues.
I won't have finances to get anything for quite awhile AFTER the wait finishes...
Quote:
Just suggestions anyway. By the way, your choice really appeals to my preference of period. I have been thinking hard of getting a Bayeux or Reeve.

Yeah, that was my original toss up. Then I decided I needed either the Reeve or the Senlac. I ultimately ordered the Senlac, but after a week or so of mulling it over, I decided I had to get the Reeve too. And I still want a Bayeux Laughing Out Loud ... Confused ... Cry I think its time for an intervention
I can see it now. A few years in the future. I'm standing in front of a room of strangers...
"My Name is Rob, and I'm an Armaholic..."

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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry bout the double post:BTW, I suggest if you want to be different from everyone else, get the Bayeux. I was thinking about it at first, since the Reeve seems more popular. But since the Senlac (as well as my 1st Gen Hastings, and the other type X in my collection) have wheel pommels, I choose the Reeve for variety. But you can't go wrong with the Bayeux. It is classic 10th-11th Century...
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Paul Watson




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PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The wait is dangerous, the wait is evil. I have approximately another 8 weeks to wait for my Albion Knight. so I look on this site and Albions, at pictures of it and try to imagine it with the blue grip I have requested.

Then the bad stuff happens.....my mouse strays to other areas of these sites and I start looking at other swords I have long desired such as the Sovereign, and in particular the beautiful example that Chad Arnow has with the brass pommel and guard (upon viewing this sword I grow particularly jealous as I know the brass guard was a one off or at least very limited production and Albion do not offer this option, and Chad told me a long time ago how awesome this sword is). I start nervousy looking at the price, knowing it will be some time before I can justify spending this sort of money to my wife, but that doesn't lessen my desire for yet another sword....even before the one I have ordered has arrived. I think I need help to curb this addiction.

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, but that which it protects. (Faramir, The Two Towers)
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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Mon 02 Apr, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
The wait is dangerous, the wait is evil. I have approximately another 8 weeks to wait for my Albion Knight. so I look on this site and Albions, at pictures of it and try to imagine it with the blue grip I have requested
Preach it brother. Preach it...
Blue grip, hmmm? You're gonna have to show me, cause I'm having a hard time picturing it...
Quote:
but that doesn't lessen my desire for yet another sword....even before the one I have ordered has arrived. I think I need help to curb this addiction.
You know what I discovered helps cure the sword lust for a second one? Ordering it... Wink
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