[Steve Grisetti]

[Richard Fay]

Hello all!

[Sonny Suttles]

I have spoken to my factory and without going in to long rehash I had a few things I would like to share with you guys.
Basically all of the previous designs that are made from this factory were designed by CAS
iberia when the factory used to produce their swords and later by ProCut when they picked up the factory (note this factory never produced for both at the same time.) Anyway all swords were made from drawings that did not necessarily go into specific details about distal taper and tang, etc.....
Long story short. These blade are actually hand forged and tempered to designs based on what the previous companies (CAS and ProCut requested) The factory has assured me that they can produce any these swords with correct proportions etc but they would need (samples for examples) funny huh
I look at them as a giant sword xerox machine so maybe I should commission some samples be made from the new designs I have by someone skilled in swordsmithing and send those over to the factory. That way I get to stay in the retail price range that I want. No longer called entry level maybe we'll just say value priced swords for now (wink).
Anyway those are my thoughts. Let me know what you guys think.
Sonny

[Joe Fults]

I *think* that some folks might get touchy about having their stuff duplicated. You may have to work around a bit to find a partner, but other firms have similar arrangements up the stack. It will be interesting to see what kind of licensing arrangement you can work out. To just duplicate somebody else's work without such an arrangement would almost certainly cause a rift between your firm, the maker in question, and at least some of the collecting community (assuming that matters).

Perhaps a different angle to consider is that the Philipines also has a martial heritage (assuming your factory is there). Maybe they could tap local resources regarding what makes a better sword, then angle to a Euro aesthetic?

Another option might be to look into acquiring some actual period pieces for their reference.

[Sonny Suttles]

Joe,

If you read my post carefully I said "maybe I should commission some samples be made from the new designs I have by someone skilled in swordsmithing and send those over to the factory " Notice I said my designs. I would never steal another persons work. The idea of commissioning work for a sample implies the parties involved are aware of the agreement and terms fully. I imagine that someone not wanting his work duplicated would not agree to do the work in the first place. On the other hand some artist might find the idea of their work being circulated on a large scale and being credited for their work quite appealing.
I just wanted to make this clear before I get accused of stealing someones work.
Thanks
Sonny

[Sean Belair]

if your factory can produce whatever you need, then go for the gold standard. you have an opportunity to create quality accurate sword reproductions at a relatively low cost. hire a respectable custom smith and find the designs you like. have the smith produce the prototypes and oversee the construction (to insure quality assembly).
what is important is that you maintain a high standard for both historical accuracy and quality (good customer service never hurt anyone ither).
good luck

[Lafayette C Curtis]

Ah. Well. I can't say much about the viability of the designing, commissioning, then copying thing; I believe it would usually be cheaper to hire a sword researcher to examine a historical blade and make notes on its detailed properties like balance, weight, distal and profile taper, etc.--or to do such research yourself. I have no experience whatsoever with making swords myself, though, so I may be way off the mark in this one.

Anyway, I see this effort on Valiant's part to improve its sword designs is quite commendable. And somehow I have the thought that the shell-hilt of the sword I linked to above could be combined with a single-edged blade to produce a cutlass model for pirate enthusiasts.

[Richard Fay]

[Joe Fults]

[Steve Grisetti]

[Steve Grisetti]

[Sean Belair]

exactly, the designer must oversee the production to insure accuracy

[Sonny Suttles]

What is the general opinion between the thin blunted edge for re-enacting purposes as opposed to the sharpened edge for cutting. At the shot show in Florida a few weeks ago I spoke with the people at MRL and they expressed that the thin blunted edge was required for a "battle ready" sword.
Note: These are not my terms. They are just the terms I heard spoken while around CAS, Cold Steel, MRL. etc.... at the show. I know that there is many conflicting views as to whether the term "Battle Ready" should be used. I am not looking to debate that point in this post. I am just looking for general view points regarding the 2 option I spoke of.

Thinly Blunted edge = Battle Ready / Stage Ready
Sharpened Edge = Functional

Functional and Battle ready are not the same thing I was told.
I have my own opinions on this but I would like to hear from you guys.

Thanks again so much all of you for your valued input.

Sonny Suttles
Valiant Armoury

[Lafayette C Curtis]

That seems like quite a workable classification system. I take it that you're going to make two different product lines, one for "battle ready" reenactment blunts and another for "functional" sharps? If so, that sounds like the way to go. I'll be waiting for news about the new designs.

BTW, this review has several good points about the quality people would expect from a good blunt:

http://www.myArmoury.com/review_sc_wast.html

so it might be of some use.

[Chad Arnow]

I think you could benefit from offering both blunted and sharp versions, though a sword designed to be blunt and then sharpened or a sword designed to be sharpened that is then blunted won't be as good as a sword designed from the ground up for a specific purpose.

Not to open the term debate, but battle-ready should go with sharp, in my opinion. Our forefathers didn't go to war with purposefully blunted swords.

[Joe Fults]

To me sharp is sharp and sharp = dangerous at all times, blunt is blunt and blunt = less dangerous at all times.

This is clear and easy to understand.

Functional and battle ready on the other hand are, in my opinion, just vaguely defined hype terms whose meaning seems to shift at the whim of the person writing ad copy. I suspect battle ready and functional are used precisely because they do not communicate a clear message to the consumer, and because it sounds much more cool to have a battle ready sword than a not sharp one, especially to certain key consumer segments. I also have to wonder if lawyers have told some of these firms that not sharp can be argued as not weapon when shipped.

For sake of clarity, it would be interesting to see the industry explain how battle ready differs from a blunt. If the battle ready edge is thinner than a standard blunt, whatever that might be, is it a better safety option than a blunt? I suspect not as I've been able to cut effectively using thin blunt edges. Still if battle ready is going to be the industry catch phrase for product aimed at re-enactment and stage, the industry should probably consider defining a standard edge measure that is understood across companies and product lines to remove consumer confusion. Functional as a catch phrase for sharp is easy enough to work with if its use is standardized. Otherwise buyers cannot in confidence know what they are buying from different vendors.

[J F. McBrayer]

I would recommend keeping a fairly significant distinction between the sharp and blunt product lines. MRL's swords are sold blunt, but intended to be sharpened, and I have heard many complaints that the blunt edges are too fine for safe use in historical fencing. Purpose-designed sharps and purpose-designed blunts would be better for both purposes. Of course, it's understandable if this can't be done for cost reasons (increases both design and inventory costs, I suppose).

Also, a purpose-built traditional training sword (longsword foil) in the sub-$300 price range would have a built-in market (for WMA club swords, especially) if it was of reasonable quality. Right now the only purpose-built training swords are from the higher-end production makers, and from semi-custom makers, leaving a gap in the market. If you got the design right, it ought, I would think, to be even cheaper to produce than your main lineup.

[Sonny Suttles]

Sorry resurrect an old thread but..

I was looking around the sight and I found this post from right after I bought Valiant Armoury. It interesting to look back back at how we started out.

Sonny

[Luke Zechman]

Good Thread... 2007 was right around the time that I started getting more serious about my interest in history, and more specifically military history. Always been a fan though. Just got home from a night of bar tending and it is almost morning, so I didn't read the entire thread. I feel like Valiant Armoury has a beautiful line of swords, which intrigue me. The "Warder" is my most favorite fantasy based blade ever. I think the newer lines are a huge improvement over the old line. Throw handling, historical value, and functionality away, the older line never looked right to me, and I knew very little about swords. I have looked and looked and drawn, read about, hilted, researched, handled, and lusted after swords very intensely for the past two years, and your new line looks great in my eyes. I will most likely own a Valiant sword someday, as soon as someone can help me accept a threaded nut. I am probably just being ignorant, but I would undoubtedly purchase a Valiant sword (The Bristol) if it where peened. Either way... great job to Sonny and all the people at Valiant Armoury.

Suggestions For Future Swords of the Valhalla Line

1. The Sword of Truth... The sword of the Seeker from Terry Goodkind's books.

2. Sting... From the Hobbit. (and I don't mean a copy of the one from Peter Jackson's movie)

3. The Beastmaster Sword... yeah I know I am a geek, but the one from the movies always looked sweet.

Also at this point in time I sense an interest in even older sword styles then what is currently in your line up. If you guys added a new line that focused on the accurate reproduction of ancient swords... I would probably do a cartwheel. I wanna see a falcata, kopis, sica, xiphos, iron age German swords, Celtic swords. There is a real lack of these in the market. If it could be done, then it should be done.

[Aaron Henley]