Posts: 782 Location: Upstate New York
Wed 10 Jan, 2007 12:10 pm
| Nathan Robinson wrote: |
Here are a couple from our Ornamentation: Fantasy vs. History topic.
Circa 1433
The pommel in the painting could just as easily, to my eye, be of this form: |
Aha! The somewhat sideways view of the ceremonial sword belonging to Emperor Sigismondo I of 1433 makes the pommel shape clearer. From directly face-on it looks like a "normal" disk pommel, but it's clearly not!
Thanks for that!
I agree with Nathan that the pommel in the painting could be similar to the second form he showed. To make it look like the one in the painting, all you would have to do is give is a "depressed" saddle-shape in the middle.
Definitely a different and interesting form of pommel.
Stay safe!
Posts: 8,310 Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Wed 10 Jan, 2007 5:09 pm
| Richard Fay wrote: |
| Nathan Robinson wrote: |
Here are a couple from our Ornamentation: Fantasy vs. History topic.
Circa 1433
The pommel in the painting could just as easily, to my eye, be of this form: |
Aha! The somewhat sideways view of the ceremonial sword belonging to Emperor Sigismondo I of 1433 makes the pommel shape clearer. From directly face-on it looks like a "normal" disk pommel, but it's clearly not!
Thanks for that!
I agree with Nathan that the pommel in the painting could be similar to the second form he showed. To make it look like the one in the painting, all you would have to do is give is a "depressed" saddle-shape in the middle.
Definitely a different and interesting form of pommel.
Stay safe! |
Maybe not quite an eared dagger like pommel on that sword in the painting but at least some distant family resemblance to one ? But certainly not a well known type to us today.
Are we 100% certain that it's a sword ? Could it be a dagger with a very long handle ? Just a thought: I'm not saying it is a dagger, just bringing up a possibility, even if a remote possibility ?
Posts: 782 Location: Upstate New York
Wed 10 Jan, 2007 6:34 pm
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
Are we 100% certain that it's a sword ? Could it be a dagger with a very long handle ? Just a thought: I'm not saying it is a dagger, just bringing up a possibility, even if a remote possibility ? |
Unless the painter intended to depict a leftie (what do you think, Jean? ;) ), I doubt that the weapon depicts a dagger. Swords were typically worn on the left at the time of the painting, assuming it's a typical "longsword" or "arming sword". A dagger should be on the other side.
My vote, based on the "norm" of the period, would be that the hilt goes to a sword.
On the other hand:
lefties rule!
Stay safe!
Posts: 8,310 Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Wed 10 Jan, 2007 6:46 pm
| Richard Fay wrote: |
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
Are we 100% certain that it's a sword ? Could it be a dagger with a very long handle ? Just a thought: I'm not saying it is a dagger, just bringing up a possibility, even if a remote possibility ? |
Unless the painter intended to depict a lefty (what do you think, Jean? ;) ), I doubt that the weapon depicts a dagger. Swords were typically worn on the left at the time of the painting, assuming it's a typical "longsword" or "arming sword". A dagger should be on the other side.
My vote, based on the "norm" of the period, would be that the hilt goes to a sword.
On the other hand:
lefties rule!
Stay safe! |
Yes I'm a lefty. ;) :lol: And the argument for it being a sword is 99.999% convincing: One reason I even brought up the possibility of it being a dagger is that I vaguely remember reading that daggers with long handles where popular at some point in the 14th or 15th century. ( Not 100% certain about that. )
Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Wed 10 Jan, 2007 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posts: 782 Location: Upstate New York
Wed 10 Jan, 2007 6:56 pm
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
Yes I'm a lefty. |
Me, too, if you didn't already figure that out! ;)
I just realized something about that apparent sword hilt; if it was an "eared" pommel, the ears would actually face at ninety degrees from what they should. The faces of the "ears" should face flat-of-the blade side out, like on the ceremonial sword belonging to "Emperor Sigismondo I" of 1433. Instead, the flat "faces" point toward the edge-side of the blade. That makes it even more like the pommel Nathan showed in his second post.
I'm also intrigued by the bit of the cross that's visible. It looks almost scrolled, like a simpler version of the fancy cross on ceremonial sword belonging to "Emperor Sigismondo I" of 1433. I almost think I even see a "beast's head" at the end, making it look even more like Sigismund I's swords. Take a close look at the end of the cross.
If it was based on a real weapon, it must have been a pretty impressively decorated one!
Stay safe!
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