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Justin Pasternak




Location: West Springfield, Massachusetts
Joined: 17 Sep 2006

Posts: 174

PostPosted: Mon 25 Dec, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject: Breech loading repeaters vs. breech loading autoloaders         Reply with quote

I know that this question pertains to modern weaponry but I was wondering why police and military units still use different types of repeaters (bolt-action, pump action, and lever action). Some examples are the bolt-action sniper rifle and the pump action shotgun , when I spoke of autoloaders I meant any firearm that is semi-automatic or fully-automatic in nature. The question that I have is why are reapeating firearms still being used by police and military units because semi-automatic or fully-automatic firearms are much faster and more accurate. Are repeaters more common because they are less expensive and easier to use or are the semi-automatic or fully-automatic firearms difficult (complex) to use, are they prone to jam up or are they just more expensive? Why are verious forms of breech loading repeaters still in use to this day and age?
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Dec, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Breech loading repeaters vs. breech loading autoloaders         Reply with quote

Justin Pasternak wrote:
The question that I have is why are reapeating firearms still being used by police and military units because semi-automatic or fully-automatic firearms are much faster and more accurate.


Maybe faster for un-aimed or hastily aimed fire and full auto fire but they are not more accurate as a class of firearm.

Semi-automatics can be very accurate and some sniper rifles are semi-automatic, but some fully-automatic are extremely
UN-accurate like open bolt submachine guns. ( The Ingram comes to mind ).

Even if a selective fire weapon is very accurate in semi-auto mode the same weapon won't be in full-auto after the first shot has left the barrel.

Volume of fire and extreme accuracy don't happen at the same time.

For carefully aimed fire a manually operated weapon can match the speed of a semi-auto. ( Careful aiming takes at the very least a second or two per shot and that is rushing things ! ) Range is also a factor: A target at 25 yards can be hit with a very fast aiming time if it is large but a target at 200 yards or longer like a 1000 yards will need much more care and time and skill.

No matter how good the shooter a 1000 yard shot won't be possible with a weapon that can't keep it's grouping under 1" at a 100 yards. Actually, very few people and weapon combination can hit a small target at that range.

For shotguns using pump action is a question of reliability and with the heavy recoil one can pump aim and fire as fast as with most semi-automatic shotguns. ( There are exceptions like some full-auto shotguns ).

Just curious but what source(s) gave you the idea that semi-automatic weapons are more accurate than manually operated guns ?

Hopefully I haven't oversimplified what could be a much more nuanced answer as the above is just a generalisation and there are so many different firearm models out there that getting into all the possible exceptions to the rule could take some time. Wink Laughing Out Loud

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Jon Kemper





Joined: 25 Nov 2006

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue 26 Dec, 2006 1:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean summed it up nicely.

I'd like to add that the majority of sniper rifles in use are bolt action for 2 reasons. Semi-automatic weapons tend to be less acurate than their semi-automatic counterparts. The mechanical complexity of an automatic reloading mechanism adds vibrations to a weapon when it is fired, reducing its long-range accuracy and consistancy. An inherent problem with semi-automatic weapons is a tendancy for the shooter to "rush" the shots, relying on many easily-available rounds instead of pin-point accuracy to bring down a target. A second issue with semi-automatic weapons has to do with the way they reload. The spent shell casings typically fly far from the weapon, reflecting sunlight off the o-so-shiny brass, and giving away the position of the carefully concealed shooter. A bolt action rifle allows the brass to be extracted from the chamber slowly, allowing the sniper to remain concealed.
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David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Tue 26 Dec, 2006 9:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In the case of the pump-action shotgun, there are several factors at play. The most obvious is cost; you can have a high-quality pump for much less than an equivalent semi-auto. But beyond that is reliability; pumps have historically out-toughed semis. Nowadays there are plenty of semi-auto shotguns that are reliable enough, but even they have their quirks and preferences -- semis are just more finicky about what kinds of ammo they digest. With a pump, you can shoot anything -- low-intensity training rounds, flares, blanks, gas rounds, rubber projectiles, etc -- and simply pump the action and the next round is ready to go. Semi-auto shotguns won't cycle most of these rounds.

You just can't go wrong with a decent quality pump. A cheap, beat-up Police trade-in Remington 870 will still last beyond forever while the newest "wonder semi" is choking on ammo it doesn't like.

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

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