myArmoury.com - Q: The Rus - History and equipment

Posts: 508

Tue 05 Dec, 2006 9:23 am

The Mercenary's Taylor do a "Russian Helm", however i think the mail aventail is made of unrivetted links.
http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...ucts_id=78

This combined with a mail shirt and/or lamellar cuirass would complete your warrior's armour.

Profile PM

K W Kuznak

Quote

Posts: 13

Tue 05 Dec, 2006 1:21 pm

Nick: Those are awesome links!
I really enjoyed the old Russian helmet site. The style I was looking for is the Chernaia Mogila, Chernigov, 960-970AD (I had seen a drawing of a Rus warrior wearing this same style helmet and thats what sparked the interest). Would something like horse hair be on the top or would it be without anything of that nature?

Hisham: thanks! I hadn't seen that one before. Ill remember it.

Profile PM

Nick Trueman

Quote

Posts: 246

Tue 05 Dec, 2006 3:27 pm

Hi

Yes mate, horse hair plume, or one or two feathers. This helmet is apart of the great polish serious helms with wide distribution from poland ,hungary and russia.
I am not sure if the feathers or plume has any significance apart from being a decoration? It probably does denote rank ect.

Heres a pic of the czarne moggila equipment reconstructed.

N

Attachment: 43.76 KB
russkhazaria (4).jpg

Profile PM

Dan Dickinson

Quote

Posts: 967 Location: Michigan

Wed 06 Dec, 2006 12:16 am

Another great visual reference for medieval Rus is the work of the Russian illustrator Igor Dzys.
Attached is a pic depicting druzhina from the tenth and eleventh centuries.
It is from a russian book by Rosmen publishing in Moscow. It's terribly hard to find, but may be available through inter-library loan. Unfortunately it's in Russian, but the wealth of illustrations more than make up for the language barrier.
He has several other books out in Russian as well as many articles in the Russian magazine Zeughaus. However, recently a book on the crusades featuring his artwork was published in English (it's on amazon and under a different spelling of his name, Igor Dzis).

Attachment: 110.94 KB

Profile PM

Hisham Gaballa

Quote

Posts: 508

Wed 06 Dec, 2006 1:54 am

Dan Dickinson wrote:

Another great visual reference for medieval Rus is the work of the Russian illustrator Igor Dzys.
Attached is a pic depicting druzhina from the tenth and eleventh centuries.
It is from a russian book by Rosmen publishing in Moscow. It's terribly hard to find, but may be available through inter-library loan. Unfortunately it's in Russian, but the wealth of illustrations more than make up for the language barrier.
He has several other books out in Russian as well as many articles in the Russian magazine Zeughaus. However, recently a book on the crusades featuring his artwork was published in English (it's on amazon and under a different spelling of his name, Igor Dzis).

I've got his book on the crusades. The pictures are dramatic and wonderful to look at, BUT I would take some of his reconstructions and some of the information in the text with a large pinch of salt.

For example he often depicts Ayyubid and Mamluk heavy cavalry wearing 'Tatar' style masked helmets. these helmets may have been used in Southern Russia and North-eastern Iran (although I doubt that even there they were particularly common), however AFAIK there is little evidence that they were used by Muslim warriors in the Near East in the 12th-13th centuries. he also has a fondness for depicting muslim warriors with splinted vambrace and greaves as well as small items of plate armour.

Here are some examples of his work, click on the thumbnails please:

Profile PM

Dan Dickinson

Quote

Posts: 967 Location: Michigan

Wed 06 Dec, 2006 2:55 pm

Yeah, I had wondered about some of the gear depicted, but as Islamic arms and armour aren't my areas I wasn't sure. Unfortunately that seems to be a consequence how illustrators work, they're only as good as the author they work for.

Profile PM

K W Kuznak

Quote

Posts: 13

Wed 06 Dec, 2006 3:21 pm

Nick Trueman wrote:

Hi

Yes mate, horse hair plume, or one or two feathers. This helmet is apart of the great polish serious helms with wide distribution from poland ,hungary and russia.
I am not sure if the feathers or plume has any significance apart from being a decoration? It probably does denote rank ect.

Heres a pic of the czarne moggila equipment reconstructed.

N

Does anyone reproduce this style helm? Or would I have to get it made by someone.

If I had to get it custom made who would be a good choice? I dont have a huge amount to spend on just one peice of kit.

Profile PM

Nick Trueman

Quote

Posts: 246

Wed 06 Dec, 2006 3:34 pm

Hi

Where abouts are you? I spose in Australia you would be charged around 300-400 bucks? Depending how fancy you get.

N

Profile PM

K W Kuznak

Quote

Posts: 13

Wed 06 Dec, 2006 5:26 pm

Nick Trueman wrote:

Hi

Where abouts are you? I spose in Australia you would be charged around 300-400 bucks? Depending how fancy you get.

N

Heh, No Canada actually.. $300-$400 was what i was hoping to spend. but $400-$500 would be acceptable, Im not looking for fancy.

Profile PM

Nick Trueman

Quote

Posts: 246

Thu 07 Dec, 2006 4:33 am

Oh well

Must be someone local making armour? I think you should be able to get quite a good helm for that money. The originals were made of iron then gilded so alot of people make them from brass for a similiar look. I made one from mild steel sheet then used a product called rub and buf wich is a imitation gold gilding, it turned out quite well.

N

Profile PM

Piotr Glowacki

Quote

Posts: 13 Location: Poland

Sat 08 Sep, 2007 1:15 pm

Hi
there is more information about rus

http://www.cross-dream.info/library/armour/helmets-xi.html
http://www.dom-np.narod.ru/rekon/stl/dresslav.html
http://www.shm.ru/zal8_v4.html
http://museum.velizariy.kiev.ua/
http://esoserver.narod.ru/pagan.htm
http://club-kaup.narod.ru/
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/...5_chernaia
http://south-rus.narod.ru/manvelovka.html
http://www.trinitas.ru/rus/doc/0211/005a/02110058.htm
http://russian-helmets.io.com.ua/album_1
http://club-kaup.narod.ru/kaup_r.html

If you need book please downland from thise peage

http://radoslav.mylivepage.ru/file

Best regards

Profile E-mail

Ville Vinje

Quote

Posts: 142 Location: Uppsala

Sat 08 Sep, 2007 6:15 pm

Most helpful and informative.

Is it possible to give more detailed info in english? Just a short comment after each site.

Profile PM Website

Piotr Glowacki

Quote

Posts: 13 Location: Poland

Sun 09 Sep, 2007 2:47 am

Dress from Rus, Pictures from the book "the ukrainian chroniques of the cloting" or like this :)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6112/015az1.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8185/017sf2.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/139/018cw8.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6791/019jl1.jpg
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/1115/020jn9.jpg
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/8109/021bv6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4893/022jy3.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4541/023yz0.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8540/024xb0.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5261/025di0.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9864/026wt2.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/3126/027oe6.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/1675/028lx1.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3522/029vg8.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4336/030qa8.jpg
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2775/031nv8.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5310/032ed0.jpg

And this is my foto in rus dress
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9342/dscn9293qu1.jpg

This is orginal foto my stuff :)
shoes from Novogrod
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/638/kozakidv1.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2632/novgo...allkv1.jpg

Belt from Sarkel
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2863/sarklbltad6.jpg

Decoration from Novogrod
http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/4098/sl018zn4.jpg
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/7510/rbaydr92qo3.gif

Rus buttons
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/5362/pugovtzi021cy1.jpg

men's shirt "rubaha" trousers of the type "szarawary"
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5677/rubakhahu3.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5050/clipboard01fd4.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/399/clipboard02vr9.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3830/clipboard03ew7.jpg

Bag from Smolensk
when i find orginal foto i host it
this is picture from the book i dont know title but author is Dzys (it is the best book and consistent with history more fantasy)
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4695/clipboard011qy4.jpg

What you think about this?

Profile E-mail

Piotr Glowacki

Quote

Posts: 13 Location: Poland

Sun 09 Sep, 2007 2:58 am

another type buttons from Rus
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/681/cumanjewelry1oa5.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/8068/pugovtzi011lh2.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/1944/pugovtzi021ps0.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3314/pugovtzi031bb1.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5397/pugovtzi051ew1.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3838/pugovtzi061vy6.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8417/pugovtzi071ir8.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4479/pugovtzi091nd1.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6217/pugovtzi101ui3.jpg
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4749/pugovtzi111tq3.jpg
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8574/pugovtzi121bi5.jpg
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8862/svjazka1se0.jpg

Profile E-mail

Dan Dickinson

Quote

Posts: 967 Location: Michigan

Sun 09 Sep, 2007 5:41 am

Piotr Glowacki wrote:

this is picture from the book i dont know title but author is Dzys (it is the best book and consistent with history more fantasy)
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4695/clipboard011qy4.jpg

It is from the same book I posted a pic from above. The book is Киевская Русь: Исторические рассказы by Александр Петрович Торопцев . ISBN 5-257-00900-5

Hope this helps,
Dan

Profile PM

Dan Dickinson

Quote

Posts: 967 Location: Michigan

Thu 03 Jul, 2008 6:08 am

I find the early Kievian Rus , and how the interplay of cultures created such a rich weapons set, fascinating. I particularly like the more "viking" style weaponry with the addition of horse archery. I know that Tolkien intended Rohan to be Anglo-Saxons with the two elements he believed lost them England.....horse and archery combat. However, if ever a similar culture actually existed...I believe the early Kievian Rus would probably be the closest fit.
Dan

Not sure how accurate the Gjermundbu style helm would be on this guy.
[ Linked Image ]
[ Linked Image ]

Profile PM

Kelly Powell

Quote

Posts: 123 Location: lawrence, kansas

Thu 03 Jul, 2008 6:49 am

Authentic helm or sport helm? Either way I say talk to rich at knotwolf armoury.....Good choice by the way.....Anytime you can mix east with west you can make yourself some really sexy armor and clothing ensembles.

Profile PM

Tony Peterson

Quote

Posts: 99 Location: United Kingdom

Mon 03 Nov, 2008 2:48 pm

[ Linked Image ]

Looks like Leather Lamellar?

Profile PM

Lafayette C Curtis

Quote

Posts: 2,698 Location: Indonesia

Fri 07 Nov, 2008 1:14 am

Why leather? If we assume the coloring literally represents the material, it might just as well be bronze--or painted/gilded iron.

Profile PM

William P

Quote

Posts: 1,523 Location: Sydney, Australia

Fri 06 Apr, 2012 6:24 am

Dan Dickinson wrote:

I find the early Kievian Rus , and how the interplay of cultures created such a rich weapons set, fascinating. I particularly like the more "viking" style weaponry with the addition of horse archery. I know that Tolkien intended Rohan to be Anglo-Saxons with the two elements he believed lost them England.....horse and archery combat. However, if ever a similar culture actually existed...I believe the early Kievian Rus would probably be the closest fit.
Dan

Not sure how accurate the Gjermundbu style helm would be on this guy.
[ Linked Image ]
[ Linked Image ]

i hereby bring this thread BACK from its dank, dark grave :p (sorry, couldnt help myself)

anycase, the basis for the funny shape of the gjermudbu helmet is based off whats known as the tithe church nasel.
its a LONG nasel that reaches down to the lip almost, and theres evidence its the cnetral spine of a gjermundbu STYLE half mask.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/...desjatinna

although unlike the original gjermundbu helmet, who's spectacles frame the eyes, the tithe church nasel is VERY long.

my helmet is in imitation of the general 'polish great helms' most commonly characterised by the chernalia moglia (black grave helmet but lacks most of the decorations and also possesses a nasel abit like the aforementioned tithe church nasel.

thorkil mkaes several different 'rus' helmet designs

one very interesting helmet design is the nemia, by itself its nothing too special, a single raised conical helmet like thosse used by the normans,
but theres evidence that the loops for attatching the aventail go all the way around, so its been proposed that the aventail is meant to cover everything except maybe your eyes, and the mask on the helmet brow is possibly meant to present this scary lifeless face to your opponent instead of your own.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/...nemia1.jpg

also, i would VERY fervently suggest you get your hands on AN kirpichnikov's works on russian arms and armour, it consists of 3 volumes, the first is swords and sabres, the second, other weapons (axes spears etc) and the third is defensive equipment i.e armour shield bosses, and helmets.

kirpitchnikov's articles lay the foundation for pretty much everyone studying the rus between the IX-XIV centuries
and apparently did the job of showcasing many finds were distinctly rus rather than just viking goods.

in particular we have quite a rich amount of finds particularly of armour and helmets, than most other cultures, (i mean we have ONE viking helmet, the gjermundbu) we have several rus helmets by comparison.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/...elmets.htm

i myself am reenacting a varangian rus, i.e a rus who hasnt started swapping his original gear for byzantine stuff.
so my gear will consist of (armament wise)
sabre
black grave style helmet
gjermundbu style maile i.e round rriveted, plus solid links.
2 handed axe,
both a round, and a kite style shield
And, for display only a rus type, 10th century flail of sorts. (i dont have most of these btw, thats just how i plan for my kit to expand
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...highlight=

i started a thread on my helmet, although like i ssaid, its missing a few features that make it less accurate
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...highlight=

Profile PM E-mail