Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Albion Earl in Hand Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 
Author Message
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Fri 03 Nov, 2006 2:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Can our resident marketing genius tell me if this is worth it given the gain/loss, publicity/aggrivation ratio?


As you well know, snide comments of a personal nature aren't welcome here.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Fri 03 Nov, 2006 3:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey! I'm a poor college student! and I own 5 Albions! Razz

But i am so stuck trying to raise the funds for my Discerner... *sniff *sniff
Two years of trying, two years of the unexpected happening over and over.

The fact is that one vioce makes a loud statement when its on a forum. When its good or bad, for whatever reason, it reverberates so loudly that it gets under everyones skin. But personal interpretation of posts is always different from intended tone. I just dont know why i see this issue over and over again on various forums. I would have figured we all knew that by now. I guess its in the readers emotional state at the time the post is read that makes the argument for disaster. Blush

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
My collection: Various Blades & Conan related
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Michael Edelson




Location: New York
Joined: 14 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 1,032

PostPosted: Fri 03 Nov, 2006 7:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Since we're obviously not going to talk about the Earl and are instead going to focus on the sword market, I have a question...

It has been said that the Internet forums account for a tiny fraction of Albion's customers...it has been suggested that this value is as low as 1%. This makes me wonder...where do the rest of the customers come from? Who are they? How do they learn about Albion? If interested in swords, why do they not come to the forums to learn more?

I have never seen an Albion television commercial or seen an advertisement in a magazine. I'm assuming Albion places ads in some magazines...anyone know what they are? I learned about Angus Trim, Arms and Armor and Albion either here at myArmoury or on SFI. Despite being an avid Internet enthusiast, I had never heard of any of these companies before comming to the forums.

The real question is...how do Albion and the other sword makers reach the vast majority of their customers (99%) if not online? And if online, why assume that these people are not at least reading the forums?

btw...I would love to see an Albion tv commercial.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,310

PostPosted: Fri 03 Nov, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Edelson wrote:
Since we're obviously not going to talk about the Earl and are instead going to focus on the sword market, I have a question...

It has been said that the Internet forums account for a tiny fraction of Albion's customers...it has been suggested that this value is as low as 1%. This makes me wonder...where do the rest of the customers come from? Who are they? How do they learn about Albion? If interested in swords, why do they not come to the forums to learn more?

I have never seen an Albion television commercial or seen an advertisement in a magazine. I'm assuming Albion places ads in some magazines...anyone know what they are? I learned about Angus Trim, Arms and Armor and Albion either here at myArmoury or on SFI. Despite being an avid Internet enthusiast, I had never heard of any of these companies before comming to the forums.

The real question is...how do Albion and the other sword makers reach the vast majority of their customers (99%) if not online? And if online, why assume that these people are not at least reading the forums?

btw...I would love to see an Albion tv commercial.


Good question ! Eek! Maybe it depends on how one counts: If the 1% figure comes from those who join sites like this and are identifiable as both Albion customers and registered members here or on other sword related sites.

Many many people browse, lurk or stumble onto sword sites after " Googling " or using some other search method using swords as a key word. Wink

I found out about Albion around the year 2000 or 2001 when they were mostly carrying Deltin products and this when I was first looking at swords to buy. Over a long period I would check them out to see what new products they were carrying. I remember the First Generation swords when they first came out and then the move to New Glarus and when the Next Generation swords first came out. I then ordered a Gaddhjalt through a Canadian dealer that was and still is my main source of folding knives. I eventually made my purchases directly with Albion and am very happy with all of the ones I have now.
Now without the internet I don't have a clue where I would have even heard of Albion as I have only very rarely seen any mention of them or A & A or Angus Trim or Christian Fletcher or Ollin or ............ All the vendors I have spent on something in the low 5 figures on in the last 2 years: I wouldn't even know that such companies exist and thus probably would be happy / unhappy with some cheap and overprice wallhangers bought God knows where ?

Now I could have been a customer for all these companies browsing on the net without becoming a member of this site.
Apart from using the internet to order from Albion or from others, they would have no idea or proof that I decided to order a sword on things read here or if I had just lucked onto their site. ( Thus I would be counted as part of the 99% instead of the 1% and it's a certainty that forum posts and reviews here have " educated " me about what is a quality sword and seriously influenced my purchasing decisions. )

In any case something to mull over.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Carl Croushore
Industry Professional



Location: Monticello, WI
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 117

PostPosted: Fri 03 Nov, 2006 9:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Albion should keep customers up to date on tweaks if the tweaks will significantly alter the final product and possibly cause the buyer to end up with something different than what they thought they paid for. Several of Albion's newly introduced models are very different from the concept drawings. If I had ordered one of them based on the drawings, I would have been really upset to get something different, especially after delays.


Just to clarify what a Concept drawing represents:

Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary
Main Entry: con·cept
Pronunciation: 'kän-"sept
Function: noun
1 : something conceived in the mind
2 : an abstract or generic idea generalized from particular instances


Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

Peter works especially hard doing his research for Albion, as well as his own creations. When providing R&D information for the public and for Albion's customers, he creates concept drawings to give interested parties a generic idea generalized from data gleened from his research of what a new sword may look like.

When his schedule permits, Howy posts photographs on the Albion site - and here - of R&D progress of announced swords. As the regulars here know, these tidbits appear as images of Peter's finished wax masters, blade prototypes and photos of a finished sword's first run. We are all lucky Howy often makes time for such updates.

There are many manufacturing companies in the world. Many are pleased to announce concept drawings, models and even prototypes to the public as a marketing strategy. Rarely do they announce every change and tweak made to said concepts before production models come off the line. The auto industry is a prime example of this.

I believe if you expect any product to appear precisely as the concept drawing ideal, you will often be sorely disappointed. Any swordmaker that frequents here and provides product updates on a regular basis is doing so as a courtesy and as good public relations.

Quite frankly, considering the limited scope of the market and the concentration of enthusiassts on a limited number of Websites, We may just be a little spoiled by the updates and new product information we do receive on this Website. We're just fortunate to have swordmakers that are a frequent presence on myArmoury.


Last edited by Carl Croushore on Fri 03 Nov, 2006 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Fri 03 Nov, 2006 10:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Regarding concept drawings: I humbly suggest putting a statement on the site to explain exactly what is being offered. A simple line stating that the drawing is only an artist's concept and not necessarily representative of the final product is an assurance that no consumer will be surprised. It's a simple case of covering one's liability. Placing the responsibility to know what these things represent squarely onto the shoulders of consumers is not wise and only asks for trouble, in my opinion. (For the record, this is another case of expectation management ).

Carl Croushore wrote:
Any swordmaker that frequents here and provides product updates on a regular basis is doing so as a courtesy and as good public relations.


Participation on sites like this has been an effective marketing move. Saying it is done out of courtesy really irks me. According to Howy and Mike, it has worked out quite well for them to market their items as they have. Many customers have been driven to them from this site and quite a lot of revenue has been created because of that. Despite Patrick's 1% comment above, Howy's estimates to me in the past have been significantly higher than that. The role was much, much more significant to Albion four years ago than it is now. They've grown to a point where 'net marketing has in many ways reached a saturation point. Does this mean that the role of the 'net, and in particular sites like this, has been insignificant to their growth? I have been told otherwise. I personally think that the value has dwindled considerably, however.

Looking larger than Albion and speaking in more general terms about the market as a whole:

I'm the first person to argue that this site is tiny. It's like that for a reason. I've had many conversations with people about knowing our place, not getting ahead of ourselves, and not getting a big head. This is an enthusiast/hobby-related site based on a tiny hobby with a tiny market that surrounds it. Beyond that, we're one of the smaller sites of all those that cater to this audience. That's a given, to me. However, the impact and money that has been driven into makers' pockets is significant. This info has been directly communicated to me by multiple people involved in the market. This includes being told by more than one maker that payroll has occasionally been covered as a direct result of events that transpired on this site. Let me tell you, that makes me feel pretty damn good.

Aside from that, one need not look any further than to see the reaction to any bad critique of a product. The troops are rallied, wagons circled, and the defensive hats are donned. If the 'net is such an insignificant part of these people's worlds, such commentary would be shrugged off as unimportant. Note the complete lack of participation from the real big guys: those located in China, India, and whatnot. The readers here represent a tiny droplet of their customer bases and any "bad press" has absolutely no effect on them. Is that true for A&A, Albion, Atrim, Tinker? I would say not and it has not proven to be so.

.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Howard Waddell
Industry Professional



Location: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 717

PostPosted: Sat 04 Nov, 2006 4:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Edelson wrote:
Since we're obviously not going to talk about the Earl and are instead going to focus on the sword market, I have a question...

It has been said that the Internet forums account for a tiny fraction of Albion's customers...it has been suggested that this value is as low as 1%. This makes me wonder...where do the rest of the customers come from? Who are they? How do they learn about Albion? If interested in swords, why do they not come to the forums to learn more?

I have never seen an Albion television commercial or seen an advertisement in a magazine. I'm assuming Albion places ads in some magazines...anyone know what they are? I learned about Angus Trim, Arms and Armor and Albion either here at myArmoury or on SFI. Despite being an avid Internet enthusiast, I had never heard of any of these companies before comming to the forums.

The real question is...how do Albion and the other sword makers reach the vast majority of their customers (99%) if not online? And if online, why assume that these people are not at least reading the forums?

btw...I would love to see an Albion tv commercial.


As Jean mentioned, the vast majority of our new customers come from internet search engines. Others now are coming in from the 4 to 6 trade shows we are doing every year now. Every day, Mike gets at least one new person calling and saying "I never knew you guys existed!"

But that is not to denegrate in any way the information shared on the forums. Though the majority of the customers we have don't frequent the forums, we daily encourage them to come here and read what people share about the hobby and the unbiased reviews of our products - and hopefully join in and share what they know. We recently put a link on our main page to the myArmoury reviews for that purpose, which Nathan had indicated has had an effect. So, hopefully, if they weren't a myArmoury member when they first found us, they will be. So, it goes both ways. Like a clothing company in the Northeast says in their commercials "an educated consumer is our best customer."

Btw: I'd love to do commercials. Making them is not that expensive, but buying air time... sheesh. Not in that league yet.

On a more general note - please don't take our responses as an unwillingness to take criticism. Everything said here has been taken to heart and we will always try to get better and learn from our mistakes. But it is hard when one criticism in a thread becomes an open door to criticise another unrelated thing, and then three things, and then four...

But you also have to understand that it is unfortunately human nature to be a bit stung by it. Nobody over here is getting rich from doing this, but it is a shared labor of love. As a result, Albion is like our collective "child." Show me the parent who you can walk up to and say "your child is funny-looking and probably mentally defective" and have them be cool about it, and I'd be willing to take lessons in anger-management from that person. I have already apologised personally to Joe for my first post and explained why I reacted the way I did.

As Nathan mentioned, if we were one of the "Big Guys" in Spain, India, Taiwan or China, we'd just chuckle our way to the bank. To them it doesn't matter if they lose a customer because of what someone said on a forum, because they know, like P.T. Barnum, that "another one is born every minute" and only hope that when you post about them, no matter how negatively, "just spell their name right." They deal in percentages, we deal in real people - so, conversely, we get pretty upset and do a lot of soul- and process- searching when someone is unhappy with us.

Best,

Howy

Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,310

PostPosted: Sat 04 Nov, 2006 6:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Howard I can't speak for the intentions of anybody else but as far as my posts were concerned as I mentioned a few times, I viewed this discussion mostly as a general outline of what I find irritating or frustrating in principle or in theory with some vendors or what I would really be upset about even if I haven't had a really bad experience YET: Some things are as simple as vendors should avoid giving firm delivery dates if they are not very sure they can be met and if some delay happens vendors should as far as possible just be up front with any delay. Making it clear that a delivery date is not cast in stone makes delays much easier to accept graciously.

But the large majority of my criticism is definitely not meant for Albion. I made a point of mentioning that the concept drawing for instance are very much early versions of designs and I specifically remember Peter saying so on some post here or maybe somewhere on the Albion site.

I think a thread like this gets out of " focus " when it turns to nit picking and hurt feelings: There may be a few comments that are specifically targeted at Albion but they are to me just useful feedback about minor problems that can seem huge to the person affected.There may be a couple of easy to apply changes to the text on your site that might avoid bad " assumptions " or some things might be explained more clearly. If you read all the posts I'm sure you will find some useful suggestions.

Mostly, I'm just writing this because you guys make a wonderful product and you are at the very top in customer service as far as I'm concerned and I'm personally very appreciative of all the effort and dedication, that I can only imagine, it takes to produce and research all the current production swords and still find the time to develop new models. It's not surprising that some small things may occasionally fall between the cracks. Wink Big Grin

Howard the goal was to make you feel better and I hope the above does make you feel better as that is my intent. Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Howard Waddell
Industry Professional



Location: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 717

PostPosted: Sat 04 Nov, 2006 6:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:


But the large majority of my criticism is definitely not meant for Albion. I made a point of mentioning that the concept drawing for instance are very much early versions of designs and I specifically remember Peter saying so on some post here or maybe somewhere on the Albion site.

Howard the goal was to make you feel better and I hope the above does make you feel better as that is my intent. Big Grin


Hey Jean!

Sorry if I gave that impression -I was just talking in general terms about why I came across cranky in my previous posts.

I appreciate the kind words!

Thanks,

Howy

Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Sat 04 Nov, 2006 6:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I feel its a shame that the Earl got lost in the events of this thread. I am going to be playing with it, two Regents, and some pumkins in a bit if all goes well. Since people have asked me privately for more information about the Earl, I'll post a new thread later called something to the effect of "About that Earl" to talk about it, and not everything else.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd


Last edited by Joe Fults on Sun 12 Nov, 2006 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Jason Elrod




Location: Winchester, VA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Likes: 48 pages
Reading list: 38 books

Posts: 717

PostPosted: Sat 04 Nov, 2006 7:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
I feel its a shame that the Earl got lost in the events of this thread. I am going to be playing with it, two Regents, and some pumkins in a bit if all goes well. Since people have asked me privately for more information about the Earl, I'll post a new thread later called something to the effect of "About that Earl" to talk about the it, and not everything else.


Definately do this! I'll be looking forward to it. While I have a Munich on order, the Earl is looking pretty sweet right now and it'll be nice to see it compared to the regent since I've actually handled that sword.
View user's profile Send private message
Jeremy G




Location: Massachusetts
Joined: 17 Feb 2005

Posts: 53

PostPosted: Sat 04 Nov, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That sounds awesome Joe! Sounds like fun and I definitely wanna know how it turns out! My Regent may be a little later as the grip looks more like the Earl's, but I can't quite tell which blade it looks more like. I actually had the tip up against the computer screen comparing it, but it was still kinda hard to tell. I really do want to hear more about the Earl. The whole topic does seem to have strayed, and it's ineresting reading, but I'm pretty easy going. As long as Albion keeps producing historically accurate, tough, and serviceable weapons, I'll leave the development and such up to them. I'd rather they feel they got it right than to make major changes to a design later. I guess the old saying "you can please some people some of the time, but not all people all of the time" has merit in any industry.
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,310

PostPosted: Sat 04 Nov, 2006 6:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
I feel its a shame that the Earl got lost in the events of this thread. I am going to be playing with it, two Regents, and some pumkins in a bit if all goes well. Since people have asked me privately for more information about the Earl, I'll post a new thread later called something to the effect of "About that Earl" to talk about the it, and not everything else.


Great idea as this topic has become something " else " and the Earl looks like it deserves the right kind of attention and a fresh NEW topic on it dedicated ONLY to this sword would be welcome. Cool

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,310

PostPosted: Sat 04 Nov, 2006 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Howard Waddell wrote:
Hey Jean!

Sorry if I gave that impression -I was just talking in general terms about why I came across cranky in my previous posts.

I appreciate the kind words!

Thanks,

Howy


No problem with me taking anything badly: I just was more concerned about your feelings and giving you some positive feedback to read. Wink Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Edward Hitchens




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 9 books

Posts: 819

PostPosted: Sat 04 Nov, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In Albion's defense, I think the time-constraint issue has been blown out of proportion. Let's say you put a deposit down for a sword that's not in production yet and it will be six months -- or eight months -- before the sword is done. Well, you've got some extra time to save up for the balance, right? A few months ago, I recently ordered my 'dream sword' from a very distinguished swordmaker. I was told up front by the man in charge that it would be about 12 weeks. Despite that knowledge, I still made the decision to purchase the sword and send a deposit.

Albion's concept drawings: My advice is to wait until the sword is in production before deciding to buy it. If you (the buyer) decide to buy a sword based solely on a concept drawing, you're taking the risk that the finished product might not be a direct resemblance to the drawing. Therefore, don't complain or be surprised if the pommel isn't the way you like it. I'm not talking about the subleties that Chad mentioned. I'm talking about, say, if the guard on the sword is more (or less) curved than on its drawing. Is this ever the case? Go find a concept drawing of a newly-designed Ferrari. Now, go look at the actual car. Are there differences? Yes there are!

In Patrick's post, he touched on a lot of relevent issues in our thinking, but one stands out in particular: scholarly knowledge. My knowledge of swords is quite extensive for a hobbyist at least in my opinion; the books and sources I often turn to are very reputable in this field. Yet, the folks at Albion know a lot more than me about swords! After all, they're not hobbyists; it's their profession. If a sword with an x-type of blade handles better with a curved guard instead of a straight one, that's their decision to make - and that decision will only be made based off their research (Peter's or whoever) and not on how the casual hobbyist interprets it. It would be like me telling GM how to build their cars; I don't know anything about building cars - I just drive them.

I do, however, completely agree with one of our fellow forumites who suggested that if Albion decides to make a design change to one of their swords that could delay its production timetable, any customer who put a deposit down for that particular model should be informed of the change ASAP. Just my 2 cents worth. Happy

OK, back to the original topic: Joe's Earl. It was a very fun sword to play with. Reminds me a lot of the Regent. For some reason, I've never been a fan of S-curved guards, but I love how the hollow-ground blade turned out. Between the Earl and Regent (Joe owns both), I think I prefer the latter overall.

"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
View user's profile Send private message
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Sat 04 Nov, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Edward Hitchens wrote:
In Albion's defense, I think the time-constraint issue has been blown out of proportion. Let's say you put a deposit down for a sword that's not in production yet and it will be six months -- or eight months -- before the sword is done. Well, you've got some extra time to save up for the balance, right? A few months ago, I recently ordered my 'dream sword' from a very distinguished swordmaker. I was told up front by the man in charge that it would be about 12 weeks. Despite that knowledge, I still made the decision to purchase the sword and send a deposit.


Allt his is just voices from the peanut gallery but I can play, too. Happy

Most people are not complaining about long developmental cycles. This is a normal thing. I think the issue is about the missed deadlines and a lack of communication. If I were Albion, I'd either have open-ended production times with no estimates or make some sure-thing estimate. Say a sword will take 12 months to complete when they think it will take only 16 weeks. That way, nobody will ever be disappointed. Even if they're late and take 36 weeks, they're still blowing the contract out of the water and creating impressed customers who are dazzled by their hard work. I've always under-promised and over-delivered in business and it's served me well. Over-promising killed many of my dot-com buddies during the boom. I saw it over and over and over again.

In my collecting hobby experience, I have many stories to tell. Here are three:

I once ordered a sword that was scheduled for completion in 12 months. It only took 6 and I was impressed as hell. I was a repeat customer.

Another time, I ordered a sword from somebody else that was scheduled for one year. It took three years, but the maker communicated proactively each time a deadline was missed. I was fine with this because he managed my expectations properly and I've since placed another order from him.

I ordered something else from another maker that was slated for completion in 4-5 months. After over 2 and a half years and literally not a single communication initiated by the maker, I became increasingly frustrated and canceled my order. I have reservations about ordering from him again.

I keep harping on the term "expectation management", but this is all it is. There are many really good articles available on the 'net about this concept. Believe it or not, all businesses have the power to manage the expectations of their customers. With properly managed expectations, a company can get away with crazy amounts of stuff and still manage to keep the customer base content and coming back for more. Most humans are tolerant of missteps, but very few are tolerant of being messed over.

.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,646

PostPosted: Sun 05 Nov, 2006 8:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Going to start on the "About the Earl" thread now.

*Edit to add that the thread will include completely unneccessary pumpkin slaughter.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd


Last edited by Joe Fults on Sun 05 Nov, 2006 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Edward Hitchens




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 9 books

Posts: 819

PostPosted: Sun 05 Nov, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
Going to start on the about the Earl thread now.


Excellent idea, as this topic clearly has gone to you-know-where in a handbasket. I think I'll venture over there. Happy

"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz




Location: Michigan, USA
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 864

PostPosted: Mon 06 Nov, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Edward Hitchens wrote:
In Albion's defense, I think the time-constraint issue has been blown out of proportion. Let's say you put a deposit down for a sword that's not in production yet and it will be six months -- or eight months -- before the sword is done. Well, you've got some extra time to save up for the balance, right? A few months ago, I recently ordered my 'dream sword' from a very distinguished swordmaker. I was told up front by the man in charge that it would be about 12 weeks. Despite that knowledge, I still made the decision to purchase the sword and send a deposit.


Allt his is just voices from the peanut gallery but I can play, too. Happy

Most people are not complaining about long developmental cycles. This is a normal thing. I think the issue is about the missed deadlines and a lack of communication. If I were Albion, I'd either have open-ended production times with no estimates or make some sure-thing estimate. Say a sword will take 12 months to complete when they think it will take only 16 weeks. That way, nobody will ever be disappointed. Even if they're late and take 36 weeks, they're still blowing the contract out of the water and creating impressed customers who are dazzled by their hard work. I've always under-promised and over-delivered in business and it's served me well. Over-promising killed many of my dot-com buddies during the boom. I saw it over and over and over again.

In my collecting hobby experience, I have many stories to tell. Here are three:

I once ordered a sword that was scheduled for completion in 12 months. It only took 6 and I was impressed as hell. I was a repeat customer.

Another time, I ordered a sword from somebody else that was scheduled for one year. It took three years, but the maker communicated proactively each time a deadline was missed. I was fine with this because he managed my expectations properly and I've since placed another order from him.

I ordered something else from another maker that was slated for completion in 4-5 months. After over 2 and a half years and literally not a single communication initiated by the maker, I became increasingly frustrated and canceled my order. I have reservations about ordering from him again.

I keep harping on the term "expectation management", but this is all it is. There are many really good articles available on the 'net about this concept. Believe it or not, all businesses have the power to manage the expectations of their customers. With properly managed expectations, a company can get away with crazy amounts of stuff and still manage to keep the customer base content and coming back for more. Most humans are tolerant of missteps, but very few are tolerant of being messed over.


As probably one who gets to " sweep up " after the guys and gals in the peanut gallery -- well, maybe
when my app is accepted and I pass the interview process B-) -- let me echo Nathan's sentiments. I'm
personally stuck in two situations now where I feel at the mercy of Fate. If I were dealing with larger sums
of $$$ I think I would have lost it some time ago.

As far as this thread going to Hades In An Easter Basket -- and this may seem off topic too, but ... in the
few forums I've taken part in I inevitably mention how a thread " evolves. " How the initial topic leads into
new topics, maybe even new ideas, and different conversations. I've tried to take in all of this thread and
personally enjoy that a variety of individuals and professionals are NOT -- as someone I think stated --
stirring things up, as much as maybe illuminating things some of us -- including this poor soul -- haven't
had to consider.

Hard questions.
Issues.
Solid in-put and feed-back.

Sometimes one steps on toes, oddly enough that 's the nature of our world, No ? As reasonable people
we should hope, as this thread has proven I think, to get past the hackle-raisers and egotistic and into
the areas of interest ...
View user's profile Send private message
Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Likes: 9 pages
Reading list: 28 books

Posts: 1,812

PostPosted: Sun 12 Nov, 2006 7:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
Going to start on the "About the Earl" thread now.

*Edit to add that the thread will include completely unneccessary pumpkin slaughter.

Whew! What a thread! Let me just say, CONGRATULATIONS, Joe, on your fine new sword. I like the changes to the tip configuration, and I recall hearing about the revised grip on the Regent some time ago. Both seem to be significant improvements.

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Albion Earl in Hand
Page 5 of 5 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum