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Gordon Frye




Location: Kingston, Washington
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Reading list: 15 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 1,191

PostPosted: Sun 29 Oct, 2006 11:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great topic! The best battle rifles of each of the Breat Wars!

I've had both, still have my SMLE MkIII*, made by BSA in 1915, and it's a great shooter! I've done the "Mad Minute" thing with mine, and though I can't hit the broad side of a barn while shooting that fast, I can loose off the required 15 rounds, which was pretty cool, I thought. There is, however, a "trick" to it. Cool

Douglas: I had a couple of the Remington-Lee's, and they are GREAT guns too! I lucked out and managed to score several spare magazines, and it was pretty cool to be out there with an original blackpowder cartridge rifle, switching out magazines for a quick reload, LOL! Probably the best of the 19th Century battle rifles, far superior (in my opinion) to the Krag, but sadly Remington was having serious financial difficulties during the period of testing by the US Army for a new smokeless repeater. Luckily the Brits were a couple of years ahead, and got the Lee for themselves... It would have been rather interesting had both the US and UK had Lee-based battle rifles, no?

Cheers!

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Daniel Staberg




Location: Gothenburg/Sweden
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 570

PostPosted: Sun 29 Oct, 2006 11:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nick Trueman wrote:



I agree the mauser was a more accurate rifle, the mosin I do not know much about?

N


These webpages provide a good introduction to the Mosin-Nagant in both it's Russian and it's Finnish versions.
Mosin-Nagants of Imperial Russia
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/RIFLES1.htm
Pre World War 2 Finnish Mosin-Nagant Designs
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/RIFLES2.htm
The Last of Mosin-Nagants
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/RIFLES3.htm

The Mauser achived it's slightly better accuracy at a cost, the long barrel was unvieldy and the 7,92mm round is a bit brutish. I'm mostly familiar with the Swedish Mauser, gevär m/96 (rifle m/96) which fired a 6,5mm round.
http://www.northcapepubs.com/swmauser.htm
http://www.tfd.chalmers.se/~m95perm/vapen/eldhandv/div/g_m96.html
I have a m/96 made in 1912 and a m/38 made in 1944. The 6,5x55 round is quite fun to shoot with excellent ballistic performance. Combined wit the the beastie below (the Swedish version of the BAR) one can shoot accurately at some surprisign ranges for a non-sniper weapon.



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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Likes: 9 pages
Reading list: 28 books

Posts: 1,812

PostPosted: Sun 29 Oct, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Nick Trueman wrote:
... Ok whats happening with the thumbs? Does the action engage when you push the clip in?

... When reloading the M1 one of the common mistakes lies in not pulling the operating rod completely to the rear. Instead of locking in place it will catch on the follower, so when a clip is inserted the bolt will fly forward catching the thumb. When a clip is inserted the bolt should automatically strip a round from the clip and chamber it. However, this happens far quicker when the bolt is only held open by the follower. The easiest way to avoid this is to insert the clip with the thumb while keeping the four fingers of the hand down along the side of the receiver, thereby catching the operating rod if the action flies forward.

I would add that the bolt closes with sufficient force such that your thumb will feel and look like you hit it hard with a hammer.

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Douglas G.





Joined: 30 Mar 2004

Posts: 156

PostPosted: Sun 29 Oct, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon,
I never understood why the Lee rifle was passed on in favor of the Krag, especially in light of the
hefty royalty paid for each one we produced. Further, how can the board have found in favor of the
complicated (but admittedly really cool) loading port/magazine? In '77 I bought a Saddle Krag
with a sporter stock, probably a Bannerman job, for $75 at a garage sale. It was otherwise an
unmolested piece so I put on a proper stock and sling on it and enjoyed shooting it very much, or
at least as much as I could on a budget that didn't have alot of room for expensive hunting ammo
to burn at the range. I should have kept it............Oh well.
My Remington Lee is one from the Navy contract, and I haven't shot it yet, but as soon as I get a
box of Goex Black Powder .45/70 (and some .45 Colt for the '73's) I will make some noise with it.

Now about that WWII Lithgow Arsenal Enfield I passed on in '81.............no, it's too painful


Best,
Doug

"Nous sommes dans un pot de chambre, et nous y serons emmerdes."
General Auguste Ducrot, 1 Sept. 1870
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Gordon Frye




Location: Kingston, Washington
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Reading list: 15 books

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Posts: 1,191

PostPosted: Sun 29 Oct, 2006 8:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Douglas;

It's very sad that Remington was going through it's financial difficulties at the time of the US Army trials, for as you say, it's a better gun than the Krag, in my opinion. (Certainly the opinion of the British Board of Ordnance, too! Cool ) I had a couple of Remington Lee's, a US Navy M1885 (marked "USS Monterey" #36, it's a very cool gun, but I traded it off for a wheellock pistol still in progress...) and a US Army 1882. Both are great pieces. A friend had a US Navy 1875 made by Sharps which I couldn't trade out of him, but he let me mess with a lot, and I could see lots of cool aspects to it as well. I also had a commercial M1899 in 7mm Mauser, and it was pretty nifty too. It's the version (in .30 US, aka 30-40 Krag) that Michigan, and a couple of other states adopted in preference to the Krag. Not sure if they saw service, but they're nice guns, and fully able to handle the pressures of the high-velocity loads of Mauser actions with no sweat. But by then the US Ordnance had it's heart set on the Mauser, since we got our asses handed to us by the Spaniards in Cuba by them (never mind the hokum that TR and the Yellow Press said about the affair, we just overwhelmed the Spaniards with numbers and enthusiasm).

The poor old Krag though is a great gun, just not great for a military rifle. I think that it has definite benefits for a hunting rifle, and they're as smooth as silk (oddly enough just like a Lee-Enfield...) My uncle, who was my hunting partner when I was a kid, said that while growing up in Wyoming his deer rifle was a .30-30 Winchester, his Elk gun was his .30-40 Krag. Plenty of power for Elk, and of course in those days (1930's) they were more proud of their ability to actually hunt an animal than knock it over at 800 yards from ambush. Anyway, I digress...

The Lee's, both the US and British models, are to my mind the best military bolt-actions that were ever produced. Slick, fast, accurate and with a high magazine capacity, an ability to withstand LOTS of mud and grime, and just all around nice handling capabilities make it a great gun. And as the Afghani's have proven over the years, still one to be treated with respect.

Cheers!

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Nick Trueman





Joined: 27 Mar 2006

Posts: 246

PostPosted: Wed 01 Nov, 2006 11:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These webpages provide a good introduction to the Mosin-Nagant in both it's Russian and it's Finnish versions.
Mosin-Nagants of Imperial Russia
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/RIFLES1.htm
Pre World War 2 Finnish Mosin-Nagant Designs
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/RIFLES2.htm
The Last of Mosin-Nagants
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/RIFLES3.htm

Thanks for that Daniel.
Heres another rather nasty peice of works, though very cool looking!



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Nick Trueman





Joined: 27 Mar 2006

Posts: 246

PostPosted: Thu 02 Nov, 2006 12:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Found this interesting pic from the small town of chappele, all that was left of the crucifix after the shelling.
creepy looking!



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