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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 450

PostPosted: Wed 19 Dec, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I still refer the Duellists to anyone who is interested in swordplay as an example of what good choreography can look like, the second choice being the duel in Rob Roy. To me those two set the standard inasmuch as you can feel the tension through the swordplay itself and not simply through the fine acting techniques shown by the protagonists, which is a long way from the slash and bump school of fencing shown by most movies where swords are involved.
Now, with regards to limited cult following versus mainstream appeal, one must remember the setting : had this been a civil war feud between two Carolina gentlemen, then it would have been right up there in the box office department. The story line was simply set in the wrong war for the american public and media. If they replaced the retreat from Russia with the retreat from Gettysburg, and the Restauration by Reconstruction and so on, you would have had a movie to knock Gone With the Wind off its' pedestal, with great swordplay as a bonus.

Bon coeur et bon bras
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Hugo Voisine





Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 336

PostPosted: Wed 19 Dec, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I saw "The Duellists" for the second time yesterday. The first time I saw it was a couple of years ago, and I wasn't practicing WMA at that time... I remember, however, to have been trilled by the fight scenes. Now, I enjoyed the movie on this second occasion, but I wouldn't call the fight scenes realistic anymore... I found the guards used in the smallsword duels rather strange, and the saber duels are all big chopping moves while being completely off balance and hard edge on edge parries... Sometimes the "parry" is made before the attack even begins, presenting a target to which the actor strike while the sword makes a big fat "bling" sound... Laughing Out Loud

Certainly it's better than most Hollywood productions (I don't want sound too negative here), but I think Toshiro Mifune is still the king of kings... Cool

« Que dites-vous ?... C'est inutile ?... Je le sais !
Mais on ne se bat pas dans l'espoir du succès !
Oh ! non, c'est bien plus beau lorsque c'est inutile ! »
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Chris Arrington





Joined: 06 Apr 2007

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Thu 20 Dec, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

All this talk of old sword movies, got me to go to BlockBuster and rent an old favorite of mine that I hadn't seen in probably 10 years. Excalibur (made in 1981)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur_(film)

And you know.... I still think its pretty good. Especially for when it was made. Remember this is before Braveheart, Rob Roy, Lord of the Rings, and Gladiator. A contemporary of Conan the Barbarian.

Obviously its based upon a legend, but if you kind of squint at times, its quite entertaining, and the fighting feels realistic (within reason).

Things I liked:
Armor actually works. And many fighters are hit in the armor to little effective, or at least only concussive damage (when Uther gets killed)
People actually fight with weapons other than swords including maces, axes, and spears.
The sense of chaos when involved in large melees.
People bleed when getting hit with a 3ft long sharp blade or crushed in the head with a mace. Prior to Braveheart, this was the first movie that even tried to be somewhat realistic to the damage a human being would take with these kinds of weapons.

Things I didnt like:
Ridiculous size of Battle Axes, but most movies get this wrong
Shoulder Pad style Paldrons in the "Black" period armor early in the movie.
Helmets coming off at the slightest reason (but they did typically keep a mail coif on)

We can pick it apart more, but I found it to still be a quite entertaining movie.
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George Davidson




Location: Glasgow Scotland
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu 20 Dec, 2007 9:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

as long as nothing totally ridiculous is trotted out in a movie, I'm willing to sit there and enjoy the film. I may bitch about it later but it wont spoil the film for me. I enjoy the film more if the movie makes an effort and gives me some historical accuracy in the combats but its not required.

The Duellists is a favourite of mine given the accuracy (I think) of the wounds in the movie. The fights themselves fit the pace and emotion of the characters at the time of each fight so I will let any inaccuracy in the combat slide.
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Robin Palmer




Location: herne bay Kent UK
Joined: 21 Dec 2007

Posts: 138

PostPosted: Wed 26 Dec, 2007 7:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stage or movie fighting is an interesting medium which is either complete crap or brilliant depending on who is watching and the men involved. Somebody mentioned Erral Fylne I would point out he was in fact an Olympic standard fencer the fight between flyne and Basil Rathbone in Robin of Sherwood is on of the best fights of the time both men were top grade fencers. The producer wisely left them to it only the end was scripted it has to be said the durilium sword commonly used in Hollywood in those days didn't help their cause but the men knew their business. A bulk of actors do not know how to use swords properly one reason why samurai movies look so good is most of the men involved are skilled swordsmen. The Japanese churn them out like soap operas result men who specialise in sword play. If you watch the Auther movie watch the background fights not the stars the bulk of the extras were English re-enactors had having fun. The worst fight I can remember seeing was in Red Sonja Brigit Neilson couldn't use a sword to save her life.
I have been involved in re-enactment for over thirty years and been teaching sword for twenty the styles we teach owe more to Elizabethan stage gladiators and roman gladiators who's styles were designed to be showy. If you are in the middle of a field or arena then you need large sweeping moves visible to crowds. A second point is that with the best will in the world re-enactors do not train as much as medieval warriors so telegraphing a blow aids in creating a good flowing fight. I would point out we do not script fights 99% of our fighting is free fights many fighters do know and practice medieval martial arts and incorporate them into the fighting. The key is to produce a realistic fight which is also an interesting to crowd / Audience a balancing act which some producers and arrangers are better at than others. I would say that the ones who produce the best fights are either proficient with arms or listen to men who are.

happy new year to everyone
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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Sun 06 Jan, 2008 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: Movie Fights...         Reply with quote

My father and I like to watch films on T.V. where people fight each other using swords instead of firearms. Hand-to-hand weapons are used in films nowadays as firearms have displaced them for use in combat in modern times.
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