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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Aug, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject: My new toy: Albion ML Tritiona         Reply with quote

Since I could not find a thread dealing with the Tritonia specifically, here I am starting a new one. This sword deserves it !!!!!

I have been fascinated with it ever since I saw its raw statistics. It is a beast of a single-handed sword. I was captivated by the idea of having such a heavy weapon being functional, and handling like a boat anchor. It should be fair to presume that a master sword smith have originally made such a formidable weapon. It weighs almost as much as my Reagent, and it is heavier than my Duke (both hand-and-a-half swords, though I presume most of the forumites already know that Happy ). I could not wait to see how it handled.

For the first few days, after 15-min of dry handling it tired my had very quickly. It is not as agile as my NG knight, but it is much easier to control that any of my hand and a half swords, even the ones that are a pound lighter (NG Cresy). For more details on handling, please refer to Patrick Kelly's wonderful review of the Tritona on this site.

What I want to boast about are its cutting capabilities. I ordered 20 tatami mats from Bugei. Soon I realized that it was a mistake. There is nothing wrong with the mats, but to even feel the sword impacting a target I needed a double mat, and to make it interesting I needed triple mats. For reference, a double bugei wara roll is about the same diameter as a triple Bugei tatami roll. In other words I should have bought the wara........20 tatami mats lasted for a very short time.........

This sword is a beast. That is it. There you have it. My cutting technique is not that great, but I was able to cleanly cut a triple mat with the blade tip, although it took a lot of effort. If I hit with the center of percussion, the cut was almost effortless.

Having seen what a beast the Tritonia is, now I need to do some cutting with my NG Duke. That should be interesting, though I would know to order more mats.

And did I mention that the Tritonia looks stunning. Its simple elegance is hard to put into words, but you can all look at the pictures Happy

Many thanks to Pater J. and the Albion team for recreating such a wonderful weapon.

Now I need to save money for the Solingen, and the SoSM Turin

Alexi



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Double mats are easy

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Triple mats are no match for the Tritonia

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Tatami mats, fear for your lives.......
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Wed 09 Aug, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm glad you're thrilled with the Tritonia Alexi. It's definetly on my short list of "must haves". This is the sword that really opened my eyes about the importance of mass distribution. I love the Tritonias spherical pommel too. It really gives the sword an individual character.

I did a little mat cuting today myself. A few days ago I sunk a 4X4 post into the ground to serve as a cutting stand. Today my son Sean and I broke it in by Cutting a few mats with the Reeve. That one handles the double mat rolls pretty well but I haven't attempted a three mat roll with it yet. They fall pretty easily to the Big Johnsson but I'm interested in trying out the lighter Reeve against a larger target.

Again, congratulations on your Tritonia.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 09 Aug, 2006 8:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexi,

The Tritonia is also on my list of swords I'd like to have, so I'm glad to see some photos and to hear another person's opinion on it. I'm particularly interested by your comment that it handles more easily with one hand than the Crecy, though I suppose that shouldn't be all that surprising, given the difference of blade length between the two swords.

In your opinion, when compared to your Knight, does it feel as though there is more mass in the hilt and presence in the blade itself, or does it mostly feel like the blade has more presence?
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Wed 09 Aug, 2006 9:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Alexi,

The Tritonia is also on my list of swords I'd like to have, so I'm glad to see some photos and to hear another person's opinion on it. I'm particularly interested by your comment that it handles more easily with one hand than the Crecy, though I suppose that shouldn't be all that surprising, given the difference of blade length between the two swords.

In your opinion, when compared to your Knight, does it feel as though there is more mass in the hilt and presence in the blade itself, or does it mostly feel like the blade has more presence?


Craig,

I'm not Alexi (please allow me to state the obvious!) but let me add my opinion. I've handled the Crecy as well and I think you have a point about the Crecys blade length, regarding its one handed feel. In my opinion most longswords are two-handed weapons which allow for occasional one-handed use. By this I mean their handling qualities seem to be at their best when used with two hands. The Tritonias mass is distributed to be optimal for a one-handed sword of its size, not as a compromise between to worlds.

I've owned the Knight and the Tritonia definitely has more blade presence than the Knight, certainly not excessively so and perfectly suited to its design and intended function, but it does undoubtedly have a more massive feel to it.
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Aug, 2006 9:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Alexi,

The Tritonia is also on my list of swords I'd like to have, so I'm glad to see some photos and to hear another person's opinion on it. I'm particularly interested by your comment that it handles more easily with one hand than the Crecy, though I suppose that shouldn't be all that surprising, given the difference of blade length between the two swords.

In your opinion, when compared to your Knight, does it feel as though there is more mass in the hilt and presence in the blade itself, or does it mostly feel like the blade has more presence?


What Patrick said Happy

When I mentioned hand-and-a half swords, I was referring to their handling when held with one hand. The Crecy, held with with two hands, is the fastest sword I own (the Sempach comes close, but I have never cut with it). Cutting single wara mats with the Crecy is sheer joy, as one can deliver many strikes in a very quick succession.

The Knight and Tritonia are very different swords. You need them both Happy

Alexi
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Bob Burns




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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow! That Tritonia is a gorgeous one handed beast of a sword and who knows maybe one of these days one will be headed for my collection. I like the blade, it's definitely meant to cut that is for darn sure! The fastest hand and a half sword I have is the A&A Durer and what a cutter it is indeed, like lightening and at 3 lbs for a 4 foot sword it cuts like a scalpal.

Posts like this are going to get me in trouble, because now you've got me thinking about the Tritonia, you guys are gonna get me killed by my wife yet one of these days!

Alexi, that is one helluva gorgeous sword you got there and your right, it's worth a titled thread!

Congratulations on your new Tritonia!

Well, I gotta think about getting some of these tatami mats, they look like a lot of fun and I've got a couple of serious cutting swords to slice em up for the benefit of the neighborhood's entertainment. Laughing Out Loud

Nice!

Bob
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 1:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Tritonia does feel good in the hand. I haven't cut with mine, but I have swung it around....a LOT! I think the spherical pommel helps to get a really good, comfortable grip with this sword. Enjoy your Trtonia Alexi!!!!
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexi;

Have you tried cutting twohanded using the pommel ? I haven't done any cutting with mine past testing the edge on a piece of paper. ( Very limited number of cuts since paper will dull the edge if overdone. )

Although a onehander there might be occasions were using both hands might be useful and I am curious if you also find holding the pommel with the second hand tempting because it actually feels comfortable if a little crowded.

Oh, I initially found the thinness of the blade surprising at first glance. ( Keep in mind my having a couple of custom swords from 1980 that have no distal taper and using 1/4" stock sort of influenced my perceptions: Well deeply hollow ground help a bit keeping the weight manageable. )

My learning more about swords and the " real " period crosssections in the last few years here on myArmoury has changed my opinion/ perceptions about how thick a blade should be to function well as a cutting blade but the irrational part of my brain keeps saying TOO thin !

What has really helped change this erroneous perception are the Albion torture tests of a Tritonia movies on their site: One really has to want to destroy this sword deliberately for it to suffer major damage and even abuse like hitting hard the edge of a steel drum only does minor damage that can be sharpened out. So the evidence is clear that normal use may cause some rolling or minor nicks in the blade when a sword is used as historically intended against shields, armour or deflecting another sword, but this damage is what to be expected if the sword is actually used.

Oh, and congratulations about getting the Tritonia and I hope my post stimulates more discussion about it. Big Grin

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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 9:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Congrats on your Tritonia, Alexi! Glad you like it so well. Isn't it just too great what Albion has done with these big one-handed beasts? Takes your imagination completely away. Of course, after using one for an hour or so it also takes your breath, stamina, and any sense you had left in you away as well, Razz Big Grin

Hope you have many years of enjoyment!

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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Having just returned from reading about the Tritonia in Albion's website, I can feel myself being drawn to this sword. I can see where the Tritonia may well indeed wind up on my "2007 I Must Have This Sword List"! Then of course, I would have to have that fancy scabbard for it too! But hey, with the forthcoming Vassal being sword number 15 in my collection, it is time to start thinking about less but more expensive swords. Laughing Out Loud Which does include some items on the Arms & Armor list as well.

I mean it, that Tritonia is one HumDinger of a Sword!

Bob
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R Smith




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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexi,
Look's like it cuts beautifully. Big Grin
Also it is refreshing to see that you are at a good distance for your cuts. It seems that most people who post cutting pictures are in WAY close and off balance as well.
Thanks for the great pictures. This may lead me to pick one of these up myself.
Eek!
Ryan

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Bob Burns




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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, proper balance, stance and form are everything! Without a proper stance everything else is weak and will falter. Learning proper balance takes a whole lot of training, but when one can get their stances, footwork, balance and body mechanics in harmony, then the execution of the cut or strike will be truly devestating!

In another art form it took lots and lots of hard work and training to get all these things into harmony, but even to get these things to some fair degree of proficiency one will see a vast improvement in their cuts and thrusts.

I thought the cuts were nice too.

Bob
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the nice comments, guys!

Jean, I have not tried using the tritonia with two hands,as I believe that I should be able to get most from that sword with one hand (the opposite of how I feel for the hand-and-a-half ones). I am certain that if I grabbed it with two hands, I would be able to swing it faster, but imagine if I had a shield strapped to my left hand......it would be quite hard to routinely use both hands, I imagine.


Yes...distance is very important. My first few cuts with the tritonia were not great since I was distancing my self for cutting with a hand and a half sword, the only type of sword I have previously cut with. the interesting observation was that with a bit more effort I could still cut a large target with the blade tip of the Tritonia. Once I moved half a step closer, and hit with the center of percussion, the cuts were much, much easier. It took me some time to get used to the single handed sword. I also always cut with a step towards the target. If stepping and hand motion are timed properly, I can deliver much more powerful cuts. Plus I think it is the more "appropriate" situation for exchanging first blows, where both opponents are out of reach and need to step closer to be within attacking range.

The sad thing is that I can only do cutting while I am vacationing in Dallas with my family (as I currently am). Once I go to Boston, where all my swords are, I can do nothing but damage my ceiling with them........read a lot of dry handling.

Alexi
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexi Goranov wrote:
Thanks for the nice comments, guys!

Jean, I have not tried using the tritonia with two hands,as I believe that I should be able to get most from that sword with one hand (the opposite of how I feel for the hand-and-a-half ones). I am certain that if I grabbed it with two hands, I would be able to swing it faster, but imagine if I had a shield strapped to my left hand......it would be quite hard to routinely use both hands, I imagine. Alexi


Oh, I appreciate that with the Tritonia the advantages of using both hands would probably not include more effective or powerful cutting: I only see this as useful if one was using two hands to recover faster from a missed cut or if VERY tired on the battlefield and used two handed to keep on fighting. One might also transition to two hands only to speed a recovery and go back immediately to one handed use. Oh, I'm just looking at a grey zone between one handed use and true hand & a half or two handed use.

Bottom line though is that I agree that the Tritonia seems perfectly balanced for one handed use and that is the way it would be used 99% of the time with a shield. ( I always tend to be curious about the other 1% ........ Go figure. Razz Laughing Out Loud Cool )

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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 12:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just a thought on cuts and recovery. Why not allow the flow of one cut flow into the next cut and then recover.

Like say for instance I have a milk jug or detergent jug filled with water, I have many times taken a sword and cut back and forth or on slight diagonals and cut the jug from top to bottom anywhere from 4 to 6 cuts in a fast series of cuts. Lot's of fun, a bit maniacal but then I am not exactly what you would consider to be a "normal" person. Laughing Out Loud

Hmmmmm Tatami Mats

Bob
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 12:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob Burns wrote:
Just a thought on cuts and recovery. Why not allow the flow of one cut flow into the next cut and then recover.

Like say for instance I have a milk jug or detergent jug filled with water, I have many times taken a sword and cut back and forth or on slight diagonals and cut the jug from top to bottom anywhere from 4 to 6 cuts in a fast series of cuts. Lot's of fun, a bit maniacal but then I am not exactly what you would consider to be a "normal" person. Laughing Out Loud

Hmmmmm Tatami Mats

Bob


Oh, I agree completely that one is faster bringing the sword back in another arc rather than trying to stop one's motion hard and then reaccelerate for an another cut.

Using the second hand might or might not be a solution to recover from a " mistake " like an overcommitted swing: Although this is probably the type of mistake that would be corrected by an opponent cutting your head off. Wink

The too tired to move use or if wounded might be more likely to be a good use of the second hand.

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R Smith




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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 1:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bob Burns wrote:
Just a thought on cuts and recovery. Why not allow the flow of one cut flow into the next cut and then recover.

Like say for instance I have a milk jug or detergent jug filled with water, I have many times taken a sword and cut back and forth or on slight diagonals and cut the jug from top to bottom anywhere from 4 to 6 cuts in a fast series of cuts. Lot's of fun, a bit maniacal but then I am not exactly what you would consider to be a "normal" person. Laughing Out Loud

Hmmmmm Tatami Mats

Bob


I guess it depends on if you are studying sword play or not. If you are then you certainly do not want to get into the habit of going through the target and ending up in a lower guard because if you miss your shot then you are way open to an attack without any true hope of defense unless a double kill is what you are after. Wink The arms should naturally stop just in front of the body (langenort in the German) in a controlled and biomechanically correct strike i.e. using the hips and Silver's true times. Balance is naturally maintained in this fashion.

But if it is just for the pure fun of cutting stuff then why not do a crazy whirlwind of blows. Big Grin

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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Congratulations, Alexi! I have always loved the round pommel on the Tritonia. Your photos really highlighted the breadth of the beast's blade, especially near the blade tip. Somehow, the Albion site photos don't bring that out to my eyes/brain the way that your photos did.
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

R Smith wrote:


I guess it depends on if you are studying sword play or not. If you are then you certainly do not want to get into the habit of going through the target and ending up in a lower guard because if you miss your shot then you are way open to an attack without any true hope of defense unless a double kill is what you are after. Wink The arms should naturally stop just in front of the body (langenort in the German) in a controlled and biomechanically correct strike i.e. using the hips and Silver's true times. Balance is naturally maintained in this fashion.


I am probably wrong, but I thought that the "fool's guard" is a proper place to terminate one's downward strike. In my experience, to stop in "langenort" after a downward strike (with a hand and a half sword) I need to either strike weakly, or start pulling back my strike early on. In both cases I end up with a very soft strike. But maybe that is the point , do not put much power behind the strikes so that one can maneuver quickly.

With the single hander, terminating the cut with the sword in front of me is pretty hard, especially if I put some power behind the strike. I have not put as much time in studying the I.33 or other historic sources for single handed sword fighting, but in the presence of a shield, finishing your cut with the sword hand pointing back (on the shield side) may not be a horrible thing.

Alexi



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My natural finishing position with the Tritonia
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Aug, 2006 10:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Since a sword of this type is designed to be used primarily in conjunction with a shield, wouldn't the shield itself naturally inhibit the ability to always stop the sword in front of the body? Perhaps the use of the shield as a defense would negate this requirment altogether?
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