Protective gear worn cir. 800-1100 A.D? -- myArmoury.com

Thimo Savbotta

Hello. I've just joined this site as of today. My interest is in getting some help in putting together what type of bodily protection would have been worn by an English Knight in the time frame of 800-1100 A.D.

I am intersted specifically in protection against period Welch archers.

Thankyou in advance for any help.

Thimo

J. Bedell · Posted: Sun 30 Jul, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject:

An English knight would have had:

1) A chain mail shirt, maybe with a coif (mail covering the head neck and shoulders) The shirt could be worn over a regular woolen tunic or over a padded gambeson, though it is debatable whether a gambeson was used as early as 800ad.

2) A helmet, probably a spangenhelm, spectacle helm, or conical nasal helm. The helms may have cheeck plates and an aventail (mail attached to the back or back and sides of the helm to cover the neck) attached to them also.

3) A round shield with center boss, or possibly a kite shield.

This would be basic protective gear, I don't know of anything that was used specifically to defend from archers (other than the shield).

Hope this helps!

-James

p.s. If you are trying to buy this stuff at a good price I would recommend checking out www.merctailor.com They make production armor so you don't have to pay the price to have it custom made. Unless you want the detail and unsurpassed workmanship of custom armor, then I'm sure someone else here could give some advice on who to contact.

Chuck Russell · Posted: Sun 30 Jul, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject:

your time frame is way too large to be that specific. arms and armour changed a bit from the end of the "viking age" onwards.
as to a "knight" it really depends on how you view this as well, this may not ahve been there till after 1066.

as for body, mail. european 4 in 1 still riveted either all riveted or alt solid. still some debate as to when teh use of flat rings and round rings came and ended in there.

Jared Smith · Posted: Sun 30 Jul, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject:

The period actually has a pretty good range of race and empire involved. Saxons, Danish-Viking, and Sutton Hoo type gear would fit in much of it quite well.

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Sun 30 Jul, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: arrow protection

Thanks guys. I realize I've been a bit broad on the time frame, so let me narrow it to the 1st Crusade era. What I'm looking for is: What would the utmost in protective gear be if one was doing his very best not to be skewered by a bodkin.

This is for research I am doing on potential penetration tests useing a warbow and heavy arrows of the same time period. I'm not looking for an easy target. I would like to see what a period arrow from a period bow would or would not do against the very best of protection then available. Latter down the road if I am 1st successful at all against even what you both have so far offered, I'd like then and only then to move on to the introduction of plated armor and such. 1st though I'd like to try against the very best of sheilds offered circa. 10th-11th century as well as what ever else would be worn in successive layers on the soldier.

again thanks so much thus far.

Thimo

Carl Scholer · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 1:04 am Post subject:

Well between 800 and 1066 your looking at Saxon Huscarls, the Knightly tradition was introduced by the Normans. The protection offered is pretty much what every one else has suggested, mail four in one with alternatiing solid and riveted links, maybe a gambeson. The shield would most likely be constructed of lime wood planks and glued rawhide. I think the average Saxon/Viking shield is constructed with 1cm thick linden, their is allot of variance though. The mail should probably be made with 8mm diameter links that are at least 1mm thick. They should be made with charcoal iron.

During the later part of the 11th century curved tear drop shields become popular. I really don't know how they were constructed though.

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 5:14 am Post subject: maille

Thanks again.

Any suggestions on where one would locate charcoal iron links????

I work now a then with several theatrical designers and costume designers for movies as well as stage. But I do not want "theatrical" materials. Though they would pass in their faux appearence in would be cheating. I'd like to supply them with period raw materials with which to manufacture the maile and sheilds.

Now as to the gamelston padding: That I'd rather purchase from a trusted source. Any suggestions?

Maile artisians I welcome as well. However i realize just from the local Medieval events I've attended that many of the costumes, though authentic in appearence, are still "theatrical". As they are not dressing for potential true battle, specifically against real arrows. However I do believe there are others out there who regardless of battle-or no are still produceing maille in the traditional manner. I'd love to find one of these artisans.

Thanks again everyone

R Smith · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 5:34 am Post subject:

Erik D Schmid is the man to talk to about the most authentic maille around. I do not have his website right now but I am quite sure that someone could chime in with it.

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: arrow protection

Yes his name has come up quite a bit and I very much wish to find him.

Thankyou very much

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 6:40 am Post subject: Welch-Archer attire

I would like to dress the part as authenticlly as well when and if these tests come about. What would be the dress of a 11th century Welch-Archer?

I have located a pic on line, but do not know how authentic the clothing would be. Also wwould these archers wear any type of protective gear as well???

Valeriy Rog · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 7:15 am Post subject:

These archers look like from 14 and even 15 cent. Too late for your desired period Worried

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 8:11 am Post subject:

Thankyou. I didn't favor wearing that outfit, so this is good news.

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 8:13 am Post subject:

By the way I just looked at your website. You are an artist then? Are those your works????

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 9:16 am Post subject:

Here is a bit about what i do. I build warbows. I have yet to cross the 150# mark yet but I have managed 135#. Here are some pics of my bows and what I've pitted them against thus far.

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 9:20 am Post subject:

My interest in medieval bows came about while happening upon an account written of 10th Century Wech archers sending arrows through oak doors and through maile clad thighs on through the saddle and into the horse. I thought now way. I still wonder even now. So that is what I am currently up too. Meanwhile it has opened the door to a very rich area of exploration for me, as I now am intersted in the swords, armor, ect ect.

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 9:20 am Post subject:

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 9:21 am Post subject:

again

Chuck Russell · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 9:21 am Post subject:

i'm not up on my welsh, but i'm sure its pretty much just like the rest of england in teh 11thc.

long (knee length) tunics, multiple gores to allow the flow, both inner and over tunics
chauses tied to brais
ankle high turn shoes
maybe a belt around the midsection as well as a hat or hood.

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 9:21 am Post subject:

Thimo Savbotta · Posted: Mon 31 Jul, 2006 9:22 am Post subject:

Thankyou very much Chuck.