[K. Horton]

Hello,
I was wondering if anybody could point me in the right direction, I'm curious if anyone knows how or
where to get accurate dimensions of swords without actually measuring them myself? Obviously, a
person making swords for a living wouldn't give up those secrets. I read a post on Swordforum of how
Tinker goes about making his swords but no dimensions. This is new to me, is this information I'm looking
for a "figure it out for yourself" thing? Just to be clear, the dimensions I'm looking for are for instance: blade
thickness to start with, distal taper, fuller length/ depth, profile taper etc.

Any comments or advise is appreciated,

Ken

[Chad Arnow]

Ken,
Are you looking for that info on modern sword or historical ones? For historical swords, most publications only list basics: overall length, often blade length, occasionally blade width. Blade thickness and taper information is not something regularly listed.

For modern swords, you'll probably have to collect much of that info yourself or get it from other customers. Makers are loathe to publicly post the nitty-gritty details of distal taper. Part of it is that measuring and listing a bunch of stats takes time/effort. More of it is that they don't want people being able to easily copy their designs based on published stats.

The stats you see on our reviews are generally more detailed than what makers publish. And even our stats aren't detailed enough for some folks. For instance, we don't list blade thickness as a standard stat.

[Anders Backlund]

[Ken Nelson]

I have had an opportunity to study and measure several dozen original swords. I have found them to be thinner than many people realize. Most of the fullered blades were 3/16" give or take a 32nd at the guard, and the ones that had a diamond cross section, and were meant to be stiffer, would creep up to 1/4" at the guard. Many but not all had a distal taper. and a couple of blades (generally later sabres and an Italian rapier) were up to 3/8 in thick at the base, but the sabres tapered to 3/16 within the first 6 inches, and the rapier was hollow ground so far that the cross section looked like a cross. The blade on this rapier was also nearly 5 feet long.

If you have a specific blade style in mind, I will see if I can dig up one of my drawings that may be close.

Ken Nelson
Iron Wolf Forge

[Chad Arnow]

Ken,
I've handled some antiques and have been surprised out how thick they are. What really sticks out is how thick the base (ricasso area) of some rapier blade were.

I think, in general, there was a wider variety of dimensions than we often realize.

[K. Horton]

Ken and Chad,
The sword dimensions I have in mind are historical but not to the "T", long swords type XIIa.
I know the guys who make swords had to work hard to get the dimensions and it took time, I don't have access
to any historical or replica blades. Chad, I've read most of the reviews and have the list from the typology page with
the makers you supply(Gus trim, Albion, ) and the names of the swords they have made for this type. The dimensions
listed are useful as you stated but, I think, I need more info. Ken, if you had any dimensions of swords of this type from
your studies and would want to share, I would love to see. The reason I'm asking, if anyone is curious, a friend of mine
is a machinist with a extensive back round in welding, tempering, and machining and has his own machine shop and is willing to try making a sword for me if I can get the necessary information. I realize making a sword is an art and not just
somebody with a shop can make a well balanced sword. I'm not interested in making swords to sell, I just would like to
have one for myself, and be involved with the making. I need to get something to compare dimensions, and then I can
customize from there. Am I asking questions I shouldn't? Do makers or can a person patent a sword based on a historical sword dimensions from a museum? Is 5160 the most commonly used steel in a replica sword?
The last thing I want to do is anger current sword makers by my request, I just want to try myself but I'm a little stuck!
I'm sorry this is so long and for all the questions, I'm very curious and interested. If nothing comes of this project for me
I will always have any knowledge you all have to offer.

Thank you,

Ken

[Ken Nelson]

K. Horton,

I will look through and see if I can find some drawings of that type, or similar. It may take a day or two to resize them to send. My scanner will not take the full size drawings, and even if it could, the writing would come out too small. Besides, resizing the sketches gives me extra practice

As far as steel, I know of makers that like 5160, and others that like 1075, as they are easy to heat treat, and grind quite well. Well hardened and tempered they make very good blades. I however, like to use 8670 for most of my swords. It is a steel designed for industrial saw blades that is similar to L6. the addition of nickel in the steel helps it absorb shock, and the molybdenum helps keep the grain from growing if I accidentally overheat it while forging.

Chad,

You are right about the differences in thicknesses, looking at my notes again, that Italian rapier was actually closer to 1/2" at the ricasso. We may very well be dealing only a small number of the different range of thicknesses, tapers and weights that were actually made.

My comment about the swords being thinner than most people realize was based on my experiences with customers, patrons at Ren Faires that I set up at, and knife collectors. It is surprising how many of them think that a sword had to be thick and heavy to be considered a "real" or "combat ready" sword. one friend of mine (who should have known better) was actually bragging about heavy his sword was. It was an art piece, 2 1/2" wide at the hilt, 38" long, 3/8 thick, with no fuller, just a 1 1/2" wide flat. the sucker weighed over 12 lbs, and was balanced so far forward that once a swing was started, it could not be stopped, but to him that was a real sword, and what I make are only toothpicks.

Ken

[K. Horton]

Hey Ken,

That would be excellent, any info is much appreciated! If you want to pass on any other tips
as well..ditto.

Ken H.

[Vincent Le Chevalier]