Comparison Albion & Del Tin?
Swords are not my strong suit, but I'm looking at types X or XI and type XVa or XVI swords and would welcome views and advise from those who have handled them.
Specifically choosing between Del Tin and Albion for a "cocked hat" pommel type XI and a plain type XVa.
I had a conversation with some of the jousting folks with Destrier last couple of times I worked for the Royal Armouries and they spoke well of Albion. Use will mostly be for living history standard costume use, but would like to do some cutting and when time allows study fighting techniques.
All informed advice gratefully appreciated.
Rod.


Last edited by Rod Parsons on Thu 22 Jun, 2006 3:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
Re: Comparison Albion & Del Tin?
Rod Parsons wrote:
Swords are not my strong suit, but I'm looking at type XI and type XVa swords and would welcome views and advise from those who have handled them.
Specifically choosing between Del Tin and Albion for a "cocked hat" pommel type XI and a plain type XVa.
I had a conversation with some of the jousting folks with Destrier last couple of times I worked for the Royal Armouries and they spoke well of Albion. Use will mostly be for living history standard costume use, but would like to do some cutting and when time allows study fighting techniques.
All informed advice gratefully appreciated.
Rod.


Rod,
Del Tin and Albion are among our most-reviewed brands. Please check our reviews page for reviews of a variety of both company's wares.

Having owned both, I might also be able to help. Most of Albion's swords (not Squire and Maestro lines) are designed around a sharpened edge. Del Tin swords are designed with a blunt blade that can be sharpened into a relatively serviceable edge or left bluntish for sparring. They are designed with different customers and price points in mind. Albion swords have much more care taken in blade geometries and in 3D shapes of the fittings. Del Tin swords are less well-defined on purpose: they are designed to be a jack of all trades-master of none compromise at a lower price point. Del Tins also tend to loosen in the hilt over time, which can usually be quickly fixed. Many DT models are overweight as a result of this design philosophy (but not all).

If you're looking for cutting performance Albion sharp swords should be able to best a sharpened DT. For sparring, a sharp is a bad idea of course. For studying fight techniques, a blunt (a la DT) may be safer. :)
Re
Chad,
Thank you for your comments. I have been looking at some of the reviews and from the pictures and text I am developing a better opinion of the Albion product. The fullers are well defined and they look in overall terms that little bit more convincing to my eyes.
I had heard that the Del Tin tangs were welded rather than being of a piece with the blade, whereas my understanding is that the Albion have tangs of a piece with the blade. Is this so?
Your point about blunts is well taken, some few years ago I had some little experience handling a 16thC katana and doing kata with boken and have been hit often enough with a shinai to have some appreciation of your advice.
I have not yet found all the relevant reviews to make a direct comparison of the types between the two manufacturers, I will continue looking.
But might this not be a useful review format for selected items?
Rod.

Specific Del Tin types I was looking at were the 2132, 2153 and 5140. Initially
looking at similar types in the Albion Next Generation line.
Re: Re
Rod Parsons wrote:
Chad,
Thank you for your comments. I have been looking at some of the reviews and from the pictures and text I am developing a better opinion of the Albion product. The fullers are well defined and they look in overall terms that little bit more convincing to my eyes.
I had heard that the Del Tin tangs were welded rather than being of a piece with the blade, whereas my understanding is that the Albion have tangs of a piece with the blade. Is this so?
I have not yet found all the relevant reviews to make a direct comparison of the types between the two manufacturers, I will continue looking.
But might this not be a useful review format for selected items?
Rod.

Specific Del Tin types I was looking at were the 2132, 2153 and 5140. Initially
looking at similar types in the Albion Next Generation line.


Many Del Tin tangs are welded. Most people dislike welded tangs because so many companies weld them poorly, causing them to fail. DT tangs don't tend to fail very often, and for years they were the choice for European reenactors looking for sturdy blades. Albion's fullers and blade cross-sections are indeed much better-defined and their tangs are of the same piece as the blade. Albion's hilt assembly is also more sturdy.

We do have a comparison tool, but it is outdated (it pre-dates the Albion NG line) . Unfortunately, it will require many hours to update, and there are higher priorities on Nathan's plate. Any other comparison tool to directly compare swords from the review section would be a similarly enormous outlay of time for data entry and coding. Great ideas, but enormous projects.

We have reviews of the 2153 and 5140, which should help. Neither have a really close match in Albion's lineup, making an apples-to-apples comparison difficult.
Re
Understood Chad,
I am tending towards favouring the Albion Ritter, Mercenary and Ringeck. The XVI's are also nice and the Prince is not unlike the Del Tin 2153, though perhaps a little "flash" for an archer. The Squire might be a better XVI for an archer.
Better make some decisions before I get the itch to abuse some plastic. :-)
Rod.
If I could chime in :cool:

I have a DT5140 that I have used for training for the past 4 years. The initial construction was typical of many Del Tins and over time it did loosen a bit. However, the components of the weapon remained solid. I have had a refurbish done by Albion and what an amazing job they did on it. They hot peened the pommel to the tang and the crossguard was also peened in place so that hilt components are not compression fitted anymore. I really enjoyed my DT 5140 before the refurbish, and I absolutely love working out with it now. For me it fit a space while waiting for the Maestro line from Albion.

So, if you are looking for something durable, for the money and Del Tin is something to consider. If you are looking for many of the aesthetics and the historical aspects, as Chad points out, then by all means save up for an Albion. I love my Albions too!
In some ways we're comparing the standard of yesterday (DT) with a standard of today. Not so long ago, DT was the standard by which all other production swords were judged. A&A was about the only non-custom line priced above DT and was, and is, light-years better. DT was head and shoulders above the lines priced beneath them. Windlass was in their god-awful period. DT is much now as it was then. I believe much of the market has passed it by, though.

It kind of all started when some guys in Seattle (Gus, Tinker) started really analyzing and talking about sword performance. Then a relatively unknown Swedish smith (Peter Johnsson) started his journey of museum piece study. They he and Craig Johnson and others started comparing notes. The Peter joined up with Albion. Etc., etc. Now we have many options for good-performing swords (Albion, Atrim, A&A). Windlass has even turned into an often-decent budget option for decent, relatively attractive, relatively good-performing swords. We've seen an explosion in Czech companies making nice pieces.

DT, though, has added a few models but the design philosophy hasn't really changed. I've owned my share of DT's (2140, 2150, 2163, 5160, 2142, 2146, 2104, 2158, 2172, 3152) and they are mostly good swords, daggers (and 1 nice warhammer I regret selling). They just need to be taken for what they are. They are compromise weapons, meant to be serviceable in a variety of situations. They lack the subtle shapes and blade geometries that others capture, but can often be sharpened into downright decent cutters and can take abuse in sparring if left unsharpened. I have a soft spot for DT's. My first quality sword was a DT. :)
Yeah, I remember looking up Albion around 2001 / 2002 AT WORK HeHeHe and at that time the DT was what they were carrying and a small handful of their own first generation swords where just starting to be available and some of the movie swords by Jody Samson.

Got my Twohander from Albion then. It's only been about 5 years but it's almost like living on a different planet now as far as quality production swords are concerned.
Just a comment that while Albion NG swords come sharp, you can specify unsharpened edges. I doubt that many people are going to use the NG lineup for sparring because of the prices and fine work, but they'd probably give very good service if they were ordered with unshapened edges.
Robert B. Allison wrote:
Just a comment that while Albion NG swords come sharp, you can specify unsharpened edges. I doubt that many people are going to use the NG lineup for sparring because of the prices and fine work, but they'd probably give very good service if they were ordered with unshapened edges.


True, but even an unsharpened Albion edge might be less blunt than one designed to be blunt. The Squire Line might be a better choice for blunted Albion blades.

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