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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: 12th Century Arms         Reply with quote

I'm looking for images of coats-of-arms from the 12th century. Does anyone know a good resource where I could find some? If the source has images of arms from the Holy Roman Empire, that would be particularly good, but any arms from the 12th century are also useful. I've noticed from one online example that arms seemed to become increasingly more complex as the centuries passed, so I'd like to get an idea of what some of the earliest arms looked like before such complexities began to be added.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: 12th Century Arms         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
I'm looking for images of coats-of-arms from the 12th century. Does anyone know a good resource where I could find some? If the source has images of arms from the Holy Roman Empire, that would be particularly good, but any arms from the 12th century are also useful. I've noticed from one online example that arms seemed to become increasingly more complex as the centuries passed, so I'd like to get an idea of what some of the earliest arms looked like before such complexities began to be added.


I'm no expert, but I believe heraldry was still in its infancy in the 1100's. I'm not sure how advanced and standardized it was then.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

While in no way standardized, blazons and arms were in use by the time of the Norman conquest and some carried them over with them.
Just one example here because I'm familiar with it. If you breeze through the pages you'll see an evolution.

http://www.geocities.com/percyfamilyhistory/index.html

Two names come to mind for heraldry and peerage. I keep meaning to bug my local library to open their stacks.

Burkes Peerage is still considered an almost ultimate source on arms and baronetcies in Britain. There is another title I'd love to see that was written by someone named Boutelli (my notes just read Heraldry reference).

Burkes has some critics but they are up to their 106th edition and the web presence is growing.

If you are concentrating on the continent and the 12th century HRE,
the web (google) may lead the way.
Badges and arms were certainly evolving in the 12th century. If I were you, I'd actually start with a name and work it that way. If you are looking to generate a fictitous 12th century look, stick with simple geometrics.

In closing, back to my example of the Percy family. It was a place name. Some Flemish dudes became de Percy (Perci). They had some funny blue diamonds in William's early British years and a badge (my avatar) by the beginning of the 12th century. The arms continued to evolve up to true baronetcy (fishies and blue kitties and stuff);)

There is a lot of web reference out there. I don't have a lot bookedmarked for the 12th century but I'll look at some more of what I do have. Avoid the sites selling coffee mugs and tee-shirts;)

Cheers

GC
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,793

PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A couple, three quick google hits on Holy Roman Empire heraldry

http://www.imperialcollegeofheraldry.org/

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/hre.htm
and from that
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/hre_her.htm

Charlamagne displayed the imperial eagle as arms and it was on coins of the HRE by 1100

I'm seeing several good sites on Germanic heraldry and (titled) family names back to the tenth century but my one year of German isn't what it used be. At least one forum on with über links. Clip art sites and more.

Cheers

GC
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C.L. Miller




PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The warriors depicted in most 12th century illustrations from the empire do not display coats of arms on their shields, which simply bear the same abstract designs prevalent throughout the 11th century and earlier. This appears to change quite dramatically towards the end of the century, to the point where the illustrated Eneide of Heinrich von Veldeke, dated to the late 12th or early 13th century illustrates not only coats of arms, but stylized crests upon early great helms.

The detail below is from the Liber ad Honorum Augusti of 1194 and shows Dietmar von Schweinspoint bearing a heraldic boar upon his shield.


This detail from the same work displays the emperor Heinrich VI and his arms.


The following two images are both from the Eneide of Heinrich von Veldeke and display both the coats of arms and the crests mentioned above.



I hope this helps!
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