Hello
Id like to know, if anyone knows, the molecular structure of various types of blades, 420, 440, high carbon, low carbon, spring steel, living steel, heat treated, hand made and factory made, any info helps.

Hello Wilhelm

That is a pretty big topic worth a couple of PHDs worth of info to describe accurately in detail. The list of materials you give actually have a few things that overlap and there realy is no material that is identified as "living steel". In the very basic of terms you have carbon steel that when heat treated( I am assuming you are talking finished blades here) you will get different formations of molecular structure, dependent on many factors in the process and the alloys present. If you have a specific point of focus you are after we can probably give you a much better idea of what you are looking for and where to find the right answer.

Best Craig

Im speaking like before and after, does the structure condense expand, change in any way, um im trying to pin point it as much as i can, like do higher tempratures and lower freezing cooling temperatures have great effects, i dunno, ill try to come up with better questions later, thanks

Wilhelm,

It sounds to me like you really want to ask about the benefits of a specific firm's advertised heat treat, especially since you reference one of their well known legacy brand names directly in your post. Since you are asking here, instead of approaching the firm directly with your question, I assume you are interested in vetting some information you have already gathered. If that is the case, I suspect you will get a better response by posing your question directly, rather than eluding to it.

If I have misunderstood your intent in posting, please accept my sincere apology in advance.

It was not my intention to do so, while i do know the proces of one company, but i have no info of the structure from them, i want to know if anyone knows like the first styles of it, historicaly speaking, or if any other companys do hardening proceses once a blade is partially "complete", im not tring to be a smart a** or promote any particular company, im just trying to get info for a project im doing in class. I want to know about all heat treats, of more than one companys. how swords change when this hapen, or just as "simple" as how does steel change when being crafted and shaped, how a springy type steel such as for stage use, differs from a sword meant to kill/maime/etc.

Wilhelm,

I did not think you were being a "smart a**" as you put it, and I am certainly not worried about anybody promoting a company, after all I am just a visitor here like you. However your posts, at least your initial post, is pretty hard to decipher. At least it was hard for me to decipher. Hopefully some people with meaningful knowledge and expereince can make more of it than I.

I'm afraid I don't have the knowledge to help you directly either but I did some searching and will link to some older threads here that I think you might be able to mine for some relevant information (I searched on heat treatment). I will not link to other forums, but there is more out there if you are willing to explore and search. Somewhat to my surprise I could find no essays that dealt with these topics here.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...+treatment
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...+treatment
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...+treatment
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...+treatment

Good luck and good hunting.

This is a very huge topic, but here are some more links to help you out.

http://www.dfoggknives.com/

http://www.cashenblades.com/Info/Info.html

http://www.knives.com/engnath.html

Shane

thank you both greatly, most likely these will prove most informal

I seem to recall this article being a pretty good starting point: http://swordforum.com/metallurgy/ites.html

The crystalline arrangements mentioned in that article (the atoms in metals are, strictly speaking, not arranged in molecules at all) would most likely be what you're going to find in pretty much any "usable" sword blade (some stainless steels might have other forms, but then we're most likely well into wallhanger territory).

Now, if there's any somewhat specific questions beyond this (and the info others have posted), then I might be able to provide some info, or at least somewhat educated guesses, but as originally posted I'm afraid that it'd take a decent sized textbook to give a decent answer.

Good luck.

Speaking of textbooks, Verhoeven's 'Metallurgy for Bladesmiths' is a really great introduction to the subject, boiled down to the essentials it's still 200 pages, but very well written and quite understandable to the non-scientist (or at least this non-scientist :) )
Best of all, he put it up on the web -
http://mse.iastate.edu/files/verhoeven/7-5.pdf
Lots of info on the molecules in there.
:lol:

ah haha! yes im sure these will be more than enough, but incase, i would like to leave thisforim open in case i have any other thoughts, ill try to make themmore specific, and thanks for al of it