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Martin Wallgren




Location: Bjästa, Sweden
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Sat 22 Apr, 2006 10:29 am    Post subject: Vendel/Valsgärde/Ulltuna - Sutton Hoo connection?         Reply with quote

I have done some research on the Vendelperiod arms and armour and often the likness of the gear of the Sutton Hoo find is mensioned. Would be very glad if somebody could comment on this and also i like to hear if you agree with the common thought or if you have other ideas on the subjekt.

Thanx martin

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Paul Mortimer




Location: England, Essex
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Martin,
You are right about the connections between the Sutton Hoo burials and Vendel and Valsgarde and elswhere -- the stuff from those graves show a lot of similarities. some experts feel that the Sutton Hoo helmet and shield were either made in Sweden or were made by craftsmen who came from Sweden. I am not so sure.

Sutton Hoo is by no means the only place, in England, to have a lot in common with the culture around the Lake Malaren area -- in fact there evidence that friendly contacts were continued throughout the period of the migrations, right up to and beyond the early Viking age. It seems that the Angles regarded that part of southern Sweden, Jutland and the islands as their ancestral home. The Old English poem Beowulf is not only set in the area but also talks about helmets and shields similar to those found at those sites.

It is more than possible that the Angles, the early English, just continued the traditions, and in some cases - like the garnet and gold jewellery took it to a new level. There are fragments of helmet plates, like those on the Vendel, Valsgarde and Sutton Hoo helmets, found in other parts of England.


Cheers,

Paul
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Ville Vinje




Location: Uppsala
Joined: 20 Apr 2006

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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr, 2006 5:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Most people accepts the idea that there was contact between scandinavia the british islands during the 7th century.

Similarities between the objects found in the Sutton Hoo burial and valsgärde/Vendel together with the likeness of the ritualistic ship burying tells us that contact and common cultural ancestry is likable.

There are even experts (Bruce-Mitford, R., 1975. The Sutton Hoo ship-burial. Volume 1. London.) ,that say that the helmets might have been constructed by the same swedish maker. However most people regard the likeness between the objects as a result of two different makers with the same "models". The model could be the constantinian infantry and cavalry helmets from second century.

I second Mr Mortimer in the idea that the objects can be traced to an all-germanic, anglo-saxon origin. There is of cause still the possibility that there is a more definitive connection between Mälardalen and Sutton Hoo. Perhaps future development in archeology will give us an answer.

/Ville
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Jim Adelsen
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Location: WI
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject: Vendel         Reply with quote

From the pictures I have seen I would have to guess that they were made by the same armorer or at the least the same area. My own theory would be that a Swedish chieftain or king traveled to the UK and died there while on his travels. I have no doubt that there was some interaction between Scandinavia and Britain. In the sagas there is constant travel between Norway, Denmark and Sweden. The UK is too close for there to not have been interaction.
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Apr, 2006 5:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What I find interesting is that while the Sutton Hoo finds are identical in style as the Vendel/Valsgarde finds, it totally outmatches the latter finds. Just the amount of gold/cloisonnee pieces alone is mind-blowing! Whoever he was (King Redwald?), he definately was the richest of the European pre-Christian kings by the looks of it.
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Jim Adelsen
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Location: WI
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Apr, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's also interesting how little is known about the owners of the find. Being some of the richest finds you would think we would know more about the owners of these great treasures. I guess maybe it is because nobody really wrote down the history of the Swedes. Saxo gave us some history of Denmark and Snorri Iceland and Norway, but nobody for Sweden.


Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote:
What I find interesting is that while the Sutton Hoo finds are identical in style as the Vendel/Valsgarde finds, it totally outmatches the latter finds. Just the amount of gold/cloisonnee pieces alone is mind-blowing! Whoever he was (King Redwald?), he definately was the richest of the European pre-Christian kings by the looks of it.

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Ville Vinje




Location: Uppsala
Joined: 20 Apr 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 25 Apr, 2006 12:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's true that the swedes never really wrote there own history. Sweden as it looks today is a rather new country. The people who occupied the area were the kings of vendel, Valgärde and Uppsala lived were called "svear" and traditionally controlled the pretty small area around lake Mälaren and above. During the romantic era of the 15th century and 18th century swedish nobles and scientists plundered and stole literature from Denmark and other countries. This literature was smuggled out of there original countries and crudely put together to something that the swedes amazingly enough held as there history for as long as into the 1950:s.

That the people of mälardalen experienced some kind of economic boost between 500 and 700 is proved not just by the remarkable finds at Vendel/Valgärde and uppsala but also by the fact that the many hundred rests of fortification comes from this era. The biggest example of this magnificent era is the great mount of Old Uppsala and Vendel where the kings Aun, Egil, Adils and Ottar according to tradition is buried. It is interesting to compare the names of the kings with the names of those in Beowulf. The kings Egil and Adils seems to have melted together and become Edgils and the king Ottar is clearly represented in Beowulfs Ohthere.

/Ville
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Martin Wallgren




Location: Bjästa, Sweden
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Apr, 2006 10:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all for your answers.

A theory I´ve heard is that one could look on persons burried in both Scandinavia and England as members of the same social class and/or related in person to eachother. They could be married to female members of eachothers families and might have spend time at echothers courts as youngsters as a tutorial or as hostage. Later in our history this has not been uncommon at all and our present Swedish King is of French decent and is married to a German woman. Most of the modern Royal families in Europe is intermarried and related to eachother just as they where 500 years ago. So the theory goes why not 1500 yaers ago as well.

As Mr Vinje said there is connections to the Beowulf Saga. And the three mounds of Uppsala and the Ottarmound are mighty to behold. http://hem.passagen.se/gumase/GlaUppsala.jpg

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Paul Mortimer




Location: England, Essex
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Apr, 2006 12:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with what you say, gentleman concerning connections between the two areas.

Jeroen's point concerning the richness of the finds from the Mound 1 burial at Sutton Hoo is important, too.
Not only are the finds spectacular but the ship was the largest buried ship, so far found, anywhere in Europe, over 90 feet, around 30 metres. It was raised over a hundred feet up from the river and about a mile from it. It was then lowered into a trench. That takes man power - so the dead king and his successors must have been powerful men.


Cheers,

Paul
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