I have seen these harnesses in some places but cant be sure what they are for. My first thought was a harness to make the maille stay fixed during combat and running.. Anyone know? (Im refering to the leather-straps around the chest)
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3938/varangianguard1rx.jpg
Backpack? 11th century fashion statement? Artistic license?
it is an artist mistake of the leather edged square on the chest of normans. no one really knows why its there other than it could be extra protection or even the neck guard untied. the one strap is used to hold the shield.
this is an artist rendering, and has many mistakes. sholdnt be used for documentation for making ones kit ;)
this is an artist rendering, and has many mistakes. sholdnt be used for documentation for making ones kit ;)
It's a byzantine thing. I dont know what it's for, though.
It appears on mail, scale and lammelar cuirasses.
Possibly it's a marking of rank, or similar.
Attachment: 25.51 KB
Byzantine scutaoi, from various 10th cent+ sources. (Ospery, Byzantine armies 886-1118)
It appears on mail, scale and lammelar cuirasses.
Possibly it's a marking of rank, or similar.
Attachment: 25.51 KBByzantine scutaoi, from various 10th cent+ sources. (Ospery, Byzantine armies 886-1118)
Ahh those crafty byzantines.. The harness also appears on severl units in the upcoming game "Medieval 2 Total War" and it was there i first noticed it, and started wondering when they put it on everything from crusaders to gothic footsoldiers.
I can't remember seeing it on anyone but the byzantines, historically.
| Elling Polden wrote: |
| It's a byzantine thing. I dont know what it's for, though.
It appears on mail, scale and lammelar cuirasses. Possibly it's a marking of rank, or similar. |
not the same thing. at least to me its not. shown are high belts and parts to lamalar/ cloth armour harnesses. the artist rindering in the picture posted about does not resemble these :( we're talking about the guy on the left correct?
They are shown here as well:
Btw, the varangian on the left is a direct copy of the one in ospery's Byzantian Armies, included the chestband.
Attachment: 36.12 KB
Attachment: 57.02 KB
Btw, the varangian on the left is a direct copy of the one in ospery's Byzantian Armies, included the chestband.
Attachment: 36.12 KB Attachment: 57.02 KBsee though its not cut and dry. i see something overtop the cloth. like a belly/breastplate with straps over the shoulders. see teh lil tabs coming from under it? the texture of the "material" is different over teh belly than the rest of the body. as if there is a leather or metal covering. the leather straps are holding something up in my mind, not just plain over the mail... that wouldnt make sense
any actual pictures of said objects? or is it strictly reliefs and paintings?
any actual pictures of said objects? or is it strictly reliefs and paintings?
| Chuck Russell wrote: |
| see though its not cut and dry. i see something overtop the cloth. like a belly/breastplate with straps over the shoulders. see teh lil tabs coming from under it? the texture of the "material" is different over teh belly than the rest of the body. as if there is a leather or metal covering. the leather straps are holding something up in my mind, not just plain over the mail... that wouldnt make sense
any actual pictures of said objects? or is it strictly reliefs and paintings? |
I agree that there could be various ways of interpreting the drawings. An armour in two pieces maybe? Arms and shoulders, a bit like a Japanese Kote ( I think that's the word ? ) and a separate belly section overlapping the upper part and held in place by shoulder straps.
Alternatively, One layer of maille or scale with an extra layer over the belly only ?
Or, " Time travelling Hollywood costume designers " who also design S & M costumes and who used to work on Xena Warrior Princess. :p :p :p ( Sorry, couldn't resist. ;) )
Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Fri 21 Apr, 2006 12:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
Poked around a bit, and found this rather nice page on byzantine armour;
http://www.geocities.com/egfroth1/ByzArmour2.html
Now, it appears that byzantine soldiers often carried a coloured shash around the waist; probably as a mark of rank, or parent unit;
[ Linked Image ]
[ Linked Image ]
On the cascet pictures posted above, these seem to be suported by shoulder straps, but these are not evident on any of the other pictures; they just have a cloth sash tied around the chest.
But, apparantly, the osprey illustrator got the wrong idea, and made the thing leather instead. (everything was made of leather back in the day, wasn't it?)
Attachment: 17.4 KB
Osprey illustration of a byzantine skutaoi, with the leather chest straps.
http://www.geocities.com/egfroth1/ByzArmour2.html
Now, it appears that byzantine soldiers often carried a coloured shash around the waist; probably as a mark of rank, or parent unit;
[ Linked Image ]
[ Linked Image ]
On the cascet pictures posted above, these seem to be suported by shoulder straps, but these are not evident on any of the other pictures; they just have a cloth sash tied around the chest.
But, apparantly, the osprey illustrator got the wrong idea, and made the thing leather instead. (everything was made of leather back in the day, wasn't it?)
Attachment: 17.4 KBOsprey illustration of a byzantine skutaoi, with the leather chest straps.
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