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Florian H.




Location: Austria, Graz
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Mar, 2006 10:51 am    Post subject: Scabbard reference pictures         Reply with quote

Good evening everyone,

All articles I've read and pictures I've seen so far depict, let's say, three or four different types of how a scabbard was laced and strapped to a belt. I wonder if there were more exotic ways of strapping the scabbard to ones swordbelt and carrying it around.
I would like to ask you if you know any uncommon ways of swordbelt construction and maybe even where I can get pictures of it. It would be nice if you could provide me with every bit of information and graphical material you come across with.

Thanx for the help, best regards, Florian H. Happy
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Mar, 2006 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Scabbard reference pictures         Reply with quote

Florian H. wrote:
Good evening everyone,

All articles I've read and pictures I've seen so far depict, let's say, three or four different types of how a scabbard was laced and strapped to a belt. I wonder if there were more exotic ways of strapping the scabbard to ones swordbelt and carrying it around.
I would like to ask you if you know any uncommon ways of swordbelt construction and maybe even where I can get pictures of it. It would be nice if you could provide me with every bit of information and graphical material you come across with.

Thanx for the help, best regards, Florian H. Happy


Florian,
It all depends on what period and location you're talking about. Scabbards, like swords and armour and clothing and art, vary widely by era and local fashion. There are a lot more than 4 ways to lace a scabbard to a belt. You should look at period effigies, pictured in most good arms and armour books, as well as in some good history books. There are also plenty of websites that deal with effigies, including:

http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/

There are also books on effigies you can check out. Also look at period art as much as possible.

There are plenty of sources out there, you just need to spend time finding them.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Florian H.




Location: Austria, Graz
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 19

PostPosted: Wed 22 Mar, 2006 12:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
It all depends on what period and location you're talking about. Scabbards, like swords and armour and clothing and art, vary widely by era and local fashion.


That is of course right. I simply forgot to specify this. Scabbard lacings I'm in search of should be of european medieval origin. Interesting for me is the period from 11th century until the end of the 14th century. I know this is quite a long span of time, but I only look for simple pictures in order to get an idea of how scabbards were strapped. And since people are usually creative and experimental, they must have developed some strange or advantageous ways to attach their scabbards to their swordbelts.

So if anyone of you has a picture that shows a scabbard lacing that is not seen so often, I'd be very pleased if you could post it here.

best regards, Florian H. Happy
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Mar, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You will find a range of scabbard harness over this period. There is definately change as you get closer to the end of the 1400's.

Art from pre-rennaisance timeframe is infamous for depicting what was expected and more symbolic/ traditional. It is credible that if you want to do a shoulder strap suspension, you can point back to the battle of hastings and tapestries depicting that this was in use (at least sometimes) from 10th century forward. Likewise, a lower slung scabbard harness is probably functional for a longer blade length sword, and may not immediately get you ostracized from the reenactment community.

Templar effigies often depict the classic woven style of suspension that is widely emulated by higher end manufacturers and pictures you have already seen on this post. I have scanned at least one book (opted not to purchase it) with a couple of period quotes of Templers descriptions as having "low slung scabbards" and "shoulder strap" scabbards however. Similarly, at least one chronicler's battle descriptions of what Edward the Black Princes caried on foot at some battles states that the blade was "uncommonnly long, and very long gripped", (similar to what was used by his three Scottish mercenary body guards throughout the majority of his campaigns...you can probably guess at what general style of sword that might have been.) This is nothing like the traditional coronation sword or what you will see on his effigy / period art, or so called reproductions of the (actually missing and somewhat disputed as to what it looked like) Black Prince sword. I would have expected him to have had a collection... The point being, some types of swords may have been common, but suspended differently. Other swords may have existed in low popularity, and required different suspensions to be functional. You should probably examine what best suits the sword you are making the scabbard for.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Mar, 2006 3:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A site with brief descriptions of effigies from the period you expressed interest in. You will note that scabbard attachment is discussed in several (you can follow the NEXT page lengths.) Interlacing belt weave is definately not presented as universal.

http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/articles/milit...igies2.htm

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Apr, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I will try to find a link to a previous archeology article I found that surveyed width and thickness of straps. Most straps from medieval period were pretty thin, and seldom over 3/4" wide (20 mm) according to one article that had several specimens including sword suspensions. This does not preclude woven scabbard straps, just sort of gives an impression that the actual straps were a lot less stylish than much of what is protrayed in many of our current reproductions.

The following article indicates quite a wide variety of scabbard mouth and suspension styles (about mid way down, actually discussing sheaths and scabbards..but finding a variety of suspension in scabbards alone.)
http://www.eng-h.gov.uk/archcom/projects/summ...c2017b.htm

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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Apr, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The article I was trying to locate was similar to this one, but based on more specimens... This one allows for the possibility of very wide Frankish belts, but does not examine any actual evidence.
http://www.jomsb.org/Dirk/newbelt/NorseBelts_web.htm

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