[Jared Smith]

I have lost the link now, but had come across a "medieval clothing" article which showed a Renaissance period portrait of a seamstress who was making a gambeson. The reason I remember it so clearly, is that the folds of wool were not quilted like a typical blanket. The wool batting appeared to be body length strips which were trapped as vertical "ribs" that stood out from the wearer's body. There were other types of construction, but this particular one would seem likely to enable a thick padding effect, while leaving some air space and ventilation between the ribs and armour.

The type of article was similar to this one; http://www.virtue.to/articles/extant.html
Check out the pourpoint near the bottom of the page. It was reportedly filled with cotton originally.

[Jared Smith]

http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/ga...rince.html

This shows one made with wool.

[Michal Plezia]

Thanks very much for these posts! I think that cotton was rather expensive-even raw.These clothes were made for nobles-princes and kings-they coud afford it.I think that for a soldier,even officer wool coud be easier to use...

[Elling Polden]

Cotton was only grown around the Mediterranean. Thus, linnen would be much simpler to get in north-western europe, while in the south cotton would be a realistic alternative.

[Michal Plezia]

After watching gallerys on http://www.lordgreys.org I can see that people who are using pauldrons truly dont have heavy padded shoulders.... Does anybody have pictures of already mentioned arming doublets 15century from Swedish museum?

[James Barker]

[Michal Plezia]

Hmm cotton was at first strange to me because I read that till the invention of the cotton gin(or whatever it is called) the cotton was very expensive and only aristocracy could afford it.But of course author could be wrong..

So for an italian soldier cotton wool would be the most apropriate....looking for cotton than

[James Barker]

Italian Cotton Industry in the latter middle ages 1100-1600 is useful for those interested in the cotton trade of the middle ages.

Michal I think a soldier would prefer a linen shirt over a cheap cheap cotton shirt. The cotton used in Italian peasants clothing was the left over junk. Fine cotton cloth was used for curtains, sheets, and towels. Fustian was a material made of flax linen running one way and cotton the other in the fabric, it was used for table linens, napkins, and arming doublet outer layers.

[Michal Plezia]

Sorry I wasn't accurate-I mean not simple soldier-rather officer.

[Valeriy Rog]

Reading the topic was informative and interesting. As I was going to make armind doublet and jack I must say I discovered some new things thanks to you.
I just would like to share what I think about the subject:
af far as I know the arming doublet is made the same way as the civil doublet (I mean the patterns) but it is padded and serves to hold the armour on with the lacings.
http://alliance.medieval.ru/papers/jacks/arming1475.jpg
http://alliance.medieval.ru/papers/jacks/arming1475-2.jpg
Sometimes there where mail patterns as on Mr. W. R. Reynolds' one. But in this case It was supposed to be worn only under the plate armour. For the mid 15 cent. infantry the arming doublet held arms and legs protection and the body was protected with jack.
The 25-30 layers were only under the Ordinances of Louis XI of France (1461-1483). Before that the quantity of layers where not specified (if I'm not mistaken).
The patterns for jack usually where made on the base of that very civil doublet (see "The Medieval Tailor's Assistant")
There where differen types of padding - square, rhomb, horizontal or vertical. http://alliance.medieval.ru/papers/jacks/15theffigy.jpg
Sometimes the jacks where strengthened with leather, metal or baleen pieces or where worn under breast plate http://alliance.medieval.ru/papers/jacks/36ursu05.jpg (left one)
As for the Charles the VI cote armor (jupon) http://alliance.medieval.ru/papers/jacks/pourpoint.jpg I think it served more like a armour protection than the combatant protection
By the way, the jacks could be also worn on the mail, but those who don't like heave weights could wear only mail "skirt"
Everything abovewritten is my IMHO and I mus say quite of amateur level though I do my best to develop %)

[James Barker]

Valeriy

Those first 2 images are amazing, can you tell who the artist is or what the country of origin is? I have been looking for good quality images of arming doublets from the 1460s to1470s for a while now.

[Michal Plezia]

[Valeriy Rog]

[Michal Plezia]

[Valeriy Rog]

This one I could find instantly, the others have to search for some time

1450, England. As you can see the servant hels the knight to lace the legs
if you need more proves (I beleive you don't ) i'll try to find more. In general the lacings are good also for holding the arms (i've met people wore the arms also on the belts ) and poildrons (not for the full plate).

[Michal Plezia]

I have a favour to ask of you for close-up pictures of attachments for maile skirt,maile parts under arms and detailed photo of your mail collar and how is it all attached to the arming doublet in the middle XV.I have started a process of buying one and I have to know as much as possible.And always it is better to see it on someones working reproduction.
Especially for construction of collar I have more questions than answers...

[James Barker]

Michal

The guys in our group attached the voiders (maille arms) with intergrated collar to his doublet by sewing it on with hemp. They have standards (stand alone collar) which do not attach to anything, they buckle around the neck. The skirt is pointed on in a few places around the arming doublet.

[Michal Plezia]

Forgive my ignorance but how that stand alone collars look like?

[James Barker]

Here is the information on my standard:

http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy/armor.htm



Here is a picture of me wearing it with my jack and a maille shirt:

[Michal Plezia]

Thanks a lot James! You really helped me!