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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Mar, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe;

Sorry about the sword, that is disgusting ! How can a company not honour a damage claim were they obviously didn't give good service and they still brag about it's good service in T.V. adds.

For me up here with the extra complications of customs clearance my preferences are the following.

1) USPS for low cost of customs clearance. The package gets transferred to Canada post and I can then track it on their site if tracking was purchased. For some strange reason before the package crosses the border and is still in the hands of USPS the tracking gives me minimal info to none ??? On the negative side if I miss the delivery I have to go get it at some hard to get to site at an industrial park.

2) Fed Ex seems the best from a tracking point of view, fastest, medium in custom brokerage costs.

3) UPS very high custom brokerage costs even on inexpensive and problem free shipments. ( Cost not justified by the broker having to work harder to get the package cleared. )

I can see having bad luck with a package by any of the major shippers but post damage customer claims is were a company proves that it gives good service or not.

Luckily, Albion does make things right in cases like this even if they end up being stiffed by the shipping company or have a lot of trouble finally getting compensated for the damage.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Lloyd Clark




Location: Beaver Dam, WI
Joined: 08 Sep 2004

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Fri 10 Mar, 2006 6:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I will only ship DHL now (in NA, outside I use USPS). Prices are half or less of UPS/FedEx, ground shipping usually gets there within 4 days, and the packages arrive in great condition (and no, I don't work for DHL).
Cheers,

Lloyd Clark
2000 World Jousting Champion
2004 World Jousting Bronze Medalist
Swordmaster
Super Proud Husband and Father!
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Mar, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
...3) UPS very high custom brokerage costs even on inexpensive and problem free shipments. ( Cost not justified by the broker having to work harder to get the package cleared. )...

I have experienced high cost/poor service issues like this in sending care packages via "brown" (sorry, Grey) to my daughter in England. Never again.

I have a sword currently enroute to me via UPS. Worried Wish me luck.

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Edward Hitchens




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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PostPosted: Sat 11 Mar, 2006 8:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have yet to have a problem sending or receiving an item via UPS; maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones. I've read Joe's and everyone's horror stories. Nothing sucks more than learning things the hard way. Got me thinking though; next sword I sell, maybe I'll send it FedEx.

BTW, Joe, let us know the outcome of all this. Hopefully it will be a happy one. Happy

"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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Samuel Mazur





Joined: 03 Mar 2006

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 11 Mar, 2006 5:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The title of the thread still amuses me.

Also, while I have never purchased a sword or anything of the sort through the mail I am an avid collector of masks almost all of which have had to be shipped to me from overseas. I've had shippers use the USPS, UPS, FedEx, and one arrived via that new company with the big yellow and red trucks (the name escapes me sorry). The USPS has lost two masks that eventually resurfaced (1-2 months later), UPS has destroyed THREE by practically flattening the boxes they were shipped in (and yet they still brought it to my door and expected me to sign for it), and FedEx has never lost or destroyed a package. FedEx just usually takes a little longer costs a little more. Dunno if that's just considering the places I have them sent from or what, but they've always been the best choice.
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Jeremy G




Location: Massachusetts
Joined: 17 Feb 2005

Posts: 53

PostPosted: Sun 12 Mar, 2006 8:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

UPS does the most package volume, (except maybe for USPS) and has mostly part-time employees who do the work. Some of them are really good, they take care of packages and load/unload properly. Others don't really care much and I've even seen some actually break packages. By the way, I used to be a supervisor there Eek! . I had written up a couple employees for that sort of thing. The high volume of the sorts, coupled with employees who only work an average of 3-4 hours (sometimes less), gives some people who work there with less morality or customer appreciation a detatchment from the packages...after all, they aren't delivering them to the customer. That's no excuse...I always felt that if you have a job to do you should strive to do it well, and if you don't like the job, go find another one!

And just to add my own little insight on package experience...my Regent from Albion got handled so roughly that the tip protector came of, and the tip broke through the box, then got ground down and broke from the belt systems. only about 1/8 " or so, but enought to warrant sending back to Albion for repair. This leads to my next point (no pun), sometimes employees have nothing to with broken parcels. Sometimes it's the equipment...Belts jam and boxes pile up and crush each other, a package falls off a truck, belt or hand truck, or a load wall falls that's not quite finished when a tractor hooks up to the trailer. All I'm trying to say is there are many different ways a box with contents can get broken, I'm just trying to add some inside experience. Hope it helps!
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Sun 12 Mar, 2006 8:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy G wrote:
...All I'm trying to say is there are many different ways a box with contents can get broken, I'm just trying to add some inside experience. Hope it helps!
Thanks for the insight, Jeremy. With the non-deliberate ways that a package can be damaged, this just emphasizes the importance of good packaging - can you offer any tips?
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sun 12 Mar, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well bad things can happen to good package. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud But it's how willing or not willing to take responsibility for damage that either makes or breaks decent customer service. ( Lots of puns here ! Some accidental. Razz )

Thanks Jeremy: Good to have some insight about how and why things go wrong.

Assuming that damage claims are dismissed unjustly, this is where I would judge a company badly.

Personally, I have being lucky with all shipping companies, and I think I have had packages handled by all the major shipping companies including DHL.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Mon 13 Mar, 2006 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Sun 12 Mar, 2006 10:55 am    Post subject: similar         Reply with quote

My Reeve arrived with three of the four faces of the box ripped around the middle. Someone, I assume at UPS, had taped it back together again, which at least suggests they noticed the problem and attempted to correct it, but for a while it must have been holding together by part of one face. The sword was fine, so I just mentioned it to Mike for the record, but it was a bit worrying. Box looked like it must have been pulled and twisted at the same time (stuck at the bottom of a big pile??).
Geoff
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Jeremy G




Location: Massachusetts
Joined: 17 Feb 2005

Posts: 53

PostPosted: Sun 12 Mar, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject: packaging         Reply with quote

Quote:
can you offer any tips?


Most companies have a good handle on packaging as it is. I've seen even the best packaged boxes get ripped or crushed on a moving belt. The best thing to do is use heavy cardboard boxes and the right packing material for the job. No movement by the item in the package is the best bet. I liked that idea of the board that someone used, that seems like a great idea for swords or longer objects you don't want bent. It may add up on shipping costs due to weight though. It's tough because you never know what will happen. On top of that my experience is with the air freight, as ground is a totally different system. I imagine there's more room for error when the package is travelling for 3-7 days as opposed to 1-3 in an air sort. I did deal with some ground shipments a few times, and I can say that package condition did seem a little worse. My best acvice? Package for the worst! Most boxes will get through unharmed, but that doesn't mean that it's acceptable to the unhappy customers, especially when they get a hard time for their insured packages...that doesn't seem right to me.
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Russ Ellis
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Joined: 20 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Mon 13 Mar, 2006 6:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Samuel Mazur wrote:
The title of the thread still amuses me.

Also, while I have never purchased a sword or anything of the sort through the mail I am an avid collector of masks almost all of which have had to be shipped to me from overseas. I've had shippers use the USPS, UPS, FedEx, and one arrived via that new company with the big yellow and red trucks (the name escapes me sorry). The USPS has lost two masks that eventually resurfaced (1-2 months later), UPS has destroyed THREE by practically flattening the boxes they were shipped in (and yet they still brought it to my door and expected me to sign for it), and FedEx has never lost or destroyed a package. FedEx just usually takes a little longer costs a little more. Dunno if that's just considering the places I have them sent from or what, but they've always been the best choice.


The other service that you are thinking of is DHL. I've also had good luck with them.

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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Mon 13 Mar, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: packaging         Reply with quote

Jeremy G wrote:
Quote:
can you offer any tips?


Most companies have a good handle on packaging as it is. I've seen even the best packaged boxes get ripped or crushed on a moving belt. The best thing to do is use heavy cardboard boxes and the right packing material for the job. No movement by the item in the package is the best bet. I liked that idea of the board that someone used, that seems like a great idea for swords or longer objects you don't want bent. It may add up on shipping costs due to weight though. It's tough because you never know what will happen. On top of that my experience is with the air freight, as ground is a totally different system. I imagine there's more room for error when the package is travelling for 3-7 days as opposed to 1-3 in an air sort. I did deal with some ground shipments a few times, and I can say that package condition did seem a little worse. My best acvice? Package for the worst! Most boxes will get through unharmed, but that doesn't mean that it's acceptable to the unhappy customers, especially when they get a hard time for their insured packages...that doesn't seem right to me.


I think you've pretty much nailed it Jeremy. Typically I ship back in the container that the customer shipped to me in, it saves on costs etc. However lately I've been thinking I need to charge more for shipping and upgrade the packaging. Hmm maybe I'll set up a poll about that just to see what the response is...

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Amy Christensen-Waddell
Industry Professional



Location: New Glarus, WI
Joined: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 93

PostPosted: Tue 14 Mar, 2006 10:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Maccarrone wrote:
Thanks for the condolences, guys.

I'd like to see sword makers offer rifle-case shipping as a standard option. I dunno about you guys, but spending as much as we do on these items, I'd gladly spring for an extra $20-30 for shipping in a cheapo plastic & foam rifle case. It being a gun case might increase curiosity -- and the potential for employee theft -- at the shipping company, but it seems a better option than the crapshoot with cardboard boxes.


Hey Joe,

Mike told me to pop on here and take a look at your box photo. Ugh - that's nasty. I'm sorry that happened, and am glad Mike is on top of it.

If it helps matters at all, a few weeks ago Howy began negotiations with a firm to sell us gun cases in quantity, so that we can offer those as an option. We got the first sample just the other day, and have ordered some so we can kick that option in. We've been hesitating because we recently ordered something like 5,000 white boxes, but when Howy completed negotiations we were able to get the gun cases at a rate that will allow us to add the case as an option for less than $20, so we had to go for it. We can use them for most sword models, including hand and a half swords, but haven't yet found something for Roman swords.

My best,
Amy

Amy Waddell
President/CEO
Albion Swords Limited, LLC

I wrote to the FBI to see if they had a file on me. They wrote back, "we do now..."
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Mathew Morris





Joined: 01 Jan 2006

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue 14 Mar, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject: Bloody UPS!!!         Reply with quote

Thats not Cool....im glad its getting taken care of though.

the sword bent??? what on earth hit it, an elephant!!! that takes a lot of weight and alot of stupidity from ups!
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 14 Mar, 2006 1:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

*deep sigh of relief* I just received a sword via UPS, safe and sound! The box definitely saw some impacts, but the styrofoam peanuts inside did their job protecting the sword.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Ryan A. C.





Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Reading list: 5 books

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PostPosted: Tue 14 Mar, 2006 5:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You folks at Albion are top notch. Having a hard case makes long distance transport a lot easier and sure takes the sting out of UPS. I'll probably go that route if I can get myself a Doge.

On the downside, it will sure make things difficult for those of us who have the urge to kill a box as soon as we first hold our new swords. Laughing Out Loud
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Joel Whitmore




Location: Simmesport, LA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 342

PostPosted: Wed 15 Mar, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Sword Shipping         Reply with quote

Kevin Cashen sent my Anduril via UPS but packed in an 8" diameter pice of PVC pipe. Since then I have sent the sword back to him twice for touch-ups and sharpening and have had no damage. I think this is the way to go if you can swing it. The problem is that if the hilt is not dismountable, you'll have to get a pipe with a diameter larger than the cross. Of course I pad it with bubble wrap and you can even tape it to a board. Spring for the end caps. I get one end with a screwon-endcap and tape it really well with duct tape. I have had no problems since shipping that way. Last time it came back there was a large boot print on the tube (lug sole pattern), but still the sword survived. I have ordered two items from A&A and both (2 handers) arrived with the carboard boxes mutlited beyond resuse or repair. Luckily the swords survived!

Amy and HOwy this may well be a great option to gun cases for smaller short swords like the Gladius!

Joel Whitmore
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Eric Nower




Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 22 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Mar, 2006 6:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Its about 50/50 for me. Some of my Albion boxes made it ok and other boxes not so well. I almost had a hemerage when my halberd cane and I could see the haft through the ripped box Eek! Box was shot, halberd ok, When the Sempach came, same deal....box was shot, Sempach was safe and unhurt. Its all a dice role I suppose.
May God have mercy on my enemies, for I shall have none.
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Mar, 2006 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Sword Shipping         Reply with quote

Joel Whitmore wrote:
Kevin Cashen sent my Anduril via UPS but packed in an 8" diameter pice of PVC pipe. Since then I have sent the sword back to him twice for touch-ups and sharpening and have had no damage. I think this is the way to go if you can swing it....

Yes, this is a nice way to go. Here is a package I received today, virtually unblemished, through USPS Priority. In this case the tube is a very tough cardboard - the type used for concrete forms.



 Attachment: 58.72 KB
shipping tube 1.JPG


"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Joe Maccarrone




Location: Burien, WA USA
Joined: 19 Sep 2003

Posts: 190

PostPosted: Thu 16 Mar, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Amy Christensen-Waddell wrote:

If it helps matters at all, a few weeks ago Howy began negotiations with a firm to sell us gun cases in quantity, so that we can offer those as an option. We got the first sample just the other day, and have ordered some so we can kick that option in.
Amy


Amy, that's good news, thanks!

The guys at my local 'UPS store' -- who are accustomed to me shipping sharp & pointy implements -- were quite impressed by the damage to the box. It's impossible to say exactly what happened to it. The blade is 'leaning' in a very slight, gradual bend toward the direction the box was broken. There's also a hole in the box where the point went through it, and one where the cross poked through.

The guys at the shop commented that based on the length of the box, it should not have been placed on the conveyor belt, but the 'belt burns' on the box showed that it had (I have no idea what their rules are regarding length of box vs. conveyor belt). The damage to the box is so extensive that the blade might have gotten forced into a bend it couldn't quite recover from.
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