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Glen A Cleeton
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 Posted: Sat 06 Jan, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'm of the opinion that the serration and draw cutting theory doesn't really hold up. Especially not with the more shallow wave types. Getting a better purchase on an object for leverage, yes.
The outlandish looking daggers that some like to think are for breaking other blades are really meant to control. I strongly feel this is where any of the flamberge blades have a real meaning in use. Even with lighter swords, it seems much more likely they were meant for leverage against another blade and not rattle the opponents teeth, or saw cloth.
As to lopping off pike heads, it just seems like a waste of energy to me. The person holding the pike still needs to be defeated. Half a pole is still half a pole. Even with a sword as large as a Zweihander, the object was still to get inside the effective range of a longer weapon. Or, indeed, to be used pike like themselves in a defensive formation.
Just some thoughts, not really originating from me but what I have concluded reasonable from reading other "kegger" threads regarding pike formations and swords.
Cheers
GC
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 06 Jan, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Draw cutting wouldn't be related to cutting of pike heads but just extra options when a twohander is used at closer ranges with the second hand below the parrying hooks.
I agree that cutting off pike heads is sort of irrelevant but disrupting the alignment of a bunch of pikes i.e. tangling them up might open up a pike square to rondachiers ( Sword and shield ) to get in close and inside the opposing formation.
As a comparison: Think of what would happen to a galley ( the ship ) if you can get one oar out of step with the rest ! A period of chaos! With pikes those 14' to maybe 21' poles must be hell to get back in order if they get tangled up !
The waves might help in " grabbing / deflecting " though.
A lot still is just looks and style ........ maybe ? I will admit I'm mostly speculating and making a case for some advantages to serrations but I could be wrong. 
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Marc-Antoine Jean
Location: Canada Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Sat 06 Jan, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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In my opinion you have way to much focus on cutting the pikes. Cutting those isn't as usefull as you might think. You forgot maybe the most interresting part of the waepon here, the quillons (as large as the shoulders...). Those can be used as a shield against pikes. With one sword it is possible to gather some pikes and then throw them away and open the ennemy frontline. Even if the two-hander is a reallyd eadly and precise weapon in single close combat, on a battlefield it is really different. We can then tell (by speculation) that the twohander wasn't used in close combat.
About the waves, the theory of the "weak points" is interresting and the idea of "jamming" opponent's blade in interresting too. But, I believe there is nothing to do with the cutting ability. In fact, the power in those weapons has nothing to do with the sharpness but everything with the power of the strike, the force of the impact. The sword is not a chainsaw...no need for teeth. It is just like when you slighly cut one of your fingers with a chef's knife, on the moment you'll feel nothing, the pain will come after. But when you blow pour thumb with a hammer, it is different. The two hander works mostly like an hammer, blowing armours, flesh and bones instead of cutting. So, no need for the dents.
I base those statements on my researched, those based on researches made over the years exclusively on two handed sword fighting...
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Peter Dietl
Location: Munich/Germany Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Hello,
sorry if Iīm not using the right terms or right words, itīs not my native language
Iīm not lucky with the picture of Landsknechts with huge swords swinging them to cut off long pikes aiming to their stomach. Fighting in a Gewalthaufen (is there a english term for this formation?) means very few room to move and making a heavy stroke could also hit some of Your own comrades..not good. On the other side stood men with long, flexible pikes from 4,5 to 5 m, so if You hit a pike on the head it would switch to the side, also because most of the former warriors hadnīt the shape of Arnie and their arms put more rubber in the system. You might be lucky to damage some of the pikes, but surely paying it with some wholes in Your waist...a Bidenhander (of beeing a Flamberge or a sword with straight edges) was in my opinion most of the time used to hit the pikemen, not the pike or to tear down the pikes to allow the sword and halbardfighter to force their way in the middle of the enemies Gewalthaufen, where the work for the Katzbalgers and Bassilards begun.Most of the members of Landsknechtgroups in our region (itīs also called Landsknechtland because many of these guys came from the countryside where Iīm living today) today say those swords are mostly posing swords for guards, so they have to look dangerous. If it comes to a fight, a halberd or a Bastardsword was the choice.
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: two handed swords |
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| Marc-Antoine Jean wrote: | In fact, the power in those weapons has nothing to do with the sharpness but everything with the power of the strike, the force of the impact. The sword is not a chainsaw...no need for teeth. (snip)T he two hander works mostly like an hammer, blowing armours, flesh and bones instead of cutting. So, no need for the dents.
I base those statements on my researched, those based on researches made over the years exclusively on two handed sword fighting... |
With all due respect, you are repeating a cliche here about swords being used like hammers; both of the 'true' two handers which I have examined in real life and the vast majority of the ones which I know of that WMA researchers have examined had sharp edges. If they were just for 'hammering' they would be dull like an estoc. These are swords, lets not forget they were also used for dueling and for a while became quite popular as individual weapons.
Also, I don't think you understand what we mean by a draw-cut. If you have ever done any sparring with a weapon like this, you are familiar with the experience of coming to grips, entering what you might call 'ringen' range. Once past your point, and inside say 4 or 5 feet, it is difficult to cut your opponent, if you aren't in a good position for a pommel strike or using the weapon to leverege a bind or a takedown, you are very limited in your options. A serrated edge would vastly enhance the effectiveness of a low velocity draw-cut, such as if you were in a bind and had the blade against their body or neck. This vastly improves the value of the weapon as it gives you another way to use the weapon at close range.
The serration would also greatly enhance the ability to cut someone who attempted to sieze your blade. This would be extremely useful for both two handed swords and rapiers, because grabbing the blade is a standard countermeasure.
Jean
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Last edited by Jean Henri Chandler on Wed 28 Feb, 2007 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Peter Dietl wrote: | Hello,
sorry if Iīm not using the right terms or right words, itīs not my native language
Iīm not lucky with the picture of Landsknechts with huge swords swinging them to cut off long pikes aiming to their stomach. Fighting in a Gewalthaufen (is there a english term for this formation?) means very few room to move and making a heavy stroke could also hit some of Your own comrades..not good. On the other side stood men with long, flexible pikes from 4,5 to 5 m, so if You hit a pike on the head it would switch to the side, also because most of the former warriors hadnīt the shape of Arnie and their arms put more rubber in the system. You might be lucky to damage some of the pikes, but surely paying it with some wholes in Your waist...a Bidenhander (of beeing a Flamberge or a sword with straight edges) was in my opinion most of the time used to hit the pikemen, not the pike or to tear down the pikes to allow the sword and halbardfighter to force their way in the middle of the enemies Gewalthaufen, where the work for the Katzbalgers and Bassilards begun.Most of the members of Landsknechtgroups in our region (itīs also called Landsknechtland because many of these guys came from the countryside where Iīm living today) today say those swords are mostly posing swords for guards, so they have to look dangerous. If it comes to a fight, a halberd or a Bastardsword was the choice. |
I'm sorry, I find the idea of weapons being carried into a dangerous environment like that just because they looked scary to be laughable. Two-handed swords were carried by doppledoldner and bodyguards to capitans and standard bearers, they were used in the same manner as halberds.
As I pointed out in the last post, they also became quite popular as individual dueling weapons and they appear in several fechtbuchs.
Jean
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Jean Henri Chandler is correct about the edges: Antique originals are indeed sharp.
There are a lot of theories on the waves, but I don't really buy into most of them. Theories include:
-Disrupting your opponent's parry, making it feel "jarring" to them: This is the least credible to me, because it's not really that surprising, unless if you are fighting blind folded.  I've fenced with a rapier with this style of blade, and none of my opponents had ever expressed any difference in their own techniques fighting against it when compared to a straight blade. Did it feel different in the parry? Yes, of course, but if someone is truly thrown off by it enough that it effects their fighting, then there is something wrong with their training.
-The waves aid in cutting the heads off pikes: Very doubtful to me. Wood axes, after all, aren't serrated.
-The waves aid in draw cuts when in close range: Maybe, maybe not. I give this a little more credibilty than the previous ones, as there are times when you and your opponent have gotten in too close that a nice sharp slice to an exposed area, such as the hands or face, can regain you the advantage. (Jean: As a very minor quibble, I personally prefer the term "Kreig distance" rather than "ringen distance", because that's what the historical masters called it... but that's beside the point. ) Now, that said, I still don't really buy too much into this, because the waviness is not really the same as how serrations are made. If you look at a saw blade (even a historical one), it simply does not have the same type of edge geometry as one of these sword blades. I can't imagine this style cutting any more efficiently than a straight edge would.
-Psychological factor: Again, maybe, maybe not. I doubt anyone was particularly terrified by this blade shape over a straight one. On the other hand, they do have a certain element of "wow" factor. Upon seeing an opponent armed with a weapon that is undoubtedly more expensive than a straight blade (and therefore, less available to a common fighting man) may add that slight amount of subconscious fear that the opponent may also very well be very skilled himself (in the same way people assume musicians with more expense instruments must be good enough that they are so discriminating in taste). Essentially, the fact that the opponent has more money may suggest that he was able to afford better personal training (whether this is true or not). I doubt that this was a primary goal of the blade style, though, but it may have been a side perk.
-Fashion: This I definately buy into. The Renaissance, when you first see this style, is when it becomes very common to decorate one's weapon, whether with inlays or with elaborate engravings. For example, there are a number of cinquedea in museums that have full, detailed mythological scenes etched into the blades.
I have myself often wondered if perhaps the waviness allows for a larger thrust wound. I have only seen this style of blade on daggers, narrow bladed rapiers, and the large two handers (which use quite a bit of thrusting techniques). I've never seen it on other styles of blade weapons. It's pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if perhaps it's a way of making a blade that can cause a thrust wound that is wide but not have the whole blade be this wide the entire way down. *shrug* Again, maybe, maybe not.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise. -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Bill Grandy wrote: |
I have myself often wondered if perhaps the waviness allows for a larger thrust wound. I have only seen this style of blade on daggers, narrow bladed rapiers, and the large two handers (which use quite a bit of thrusting techniques). I've never seen it on other styles of blade weapons. It's pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if perhaps it's a way of making a blade that can cause a thrust wound that is wide but not have the whole blade be this wide the entire way down. *shrug* Again, maybe, maybe not. |
There's at least one basket hilt with a wavy blade. I'll see if I can find a picture.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Grandy wrote: | | I still don't really buy too much into this, because the waviness is not really the same as how serrations are made. If you look at a saw blade (even a historical one), it simply does not have the same type of edge geometry as one of these sword blades. |
I have seen steak knives and carving knives with exactly that type of serration. Another idea occurred to me; is there any consensus in the Pacific Islands as to the purpose of the wave-blade shape of the 'Kris' type knives?
| Quote: | | I can't imagine this style cutting any more efficiently than a straight edge would. |
It's something I think we really, really need to put to the test. If I had something available to test with I'd do it immediately. It should not be all that far fetched to set something up, there seem to be hundreds if not thousands of zweihanders still around, both wave bladed and strait bladed. Test-cutting with low-energy cuts at soft medium should not pose any risk of damaging the blades. I would like to request that somebody with access (Peter Johnson?) test a few of these and shed some light on this discussion, it's one which has perplexed sword collectors, historians, reenactors and the WMA / HEMA community for many years.
| Quote: |
-Fashion: This I definately buy into. The Renaissance, when you first see this style, is when it becomes very common to decorate one's weapon, whether with inlays or with elaborate engravings. For example, there are a number of cinquedea in museums that have full, detailed mythological scenes etched into the blades. |
Fashion is important in the Renaisasance no doubt, but there is a big difference between some etching or inlay on a blade and actually forging the blade in a completely different (more complex and demanding) way. When you take it to this level, you usually see function behind this. The fluting on gothic harness had a purpose. The plumes on lances and pole-arms had a purpose. When it comes to swords they are even more pragmatic in their designs.
Contrary to the opinions of some re-enactors, we know these were real weapons not just parade swords or bearing swords. I haven't seen to many features on a combat sword which didn't have an actual, very practical purpose.
| Quote: |
I have myself often wondered if perhaps the waviness allows for a larger thrust wound. I have only seen this style of blade on daggers, narrow bladed rapiers, and the large two handers (which use quite a bit of thrusting techniques). I've never seen it on other styles of blade weapons. It's pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if perhaps it's a way of making a blade that can cause a thrust wound that is wide but not have the whole blade be this wide the entire way down. *shrug* Again, maybe, maybe not. |
I've thought of this as well, and it's definately plausible enough if you think about it, though I think the draw-cut is the most likely. Still, another thing which could be fairly easily tested.
Finally, from my experiment I have a new respect for the abilty of a sword to cut off a polearm head. Thats why the shorter types of halberds, bills, poll-axes, partisans etc. etc. all had langets, I'm sure. I disagree with the contention that a pike without it's steel tip is just as dangerous as one which still has a tip.. particularly if you are wearing armor. In a push of pikes situation, a wooden pole is far less dangerous than a steel pointed pike IMHO. Nor does it require a huge sweeping cut across both sides of your body. I cut a pole with a short cut from a wrath guard to a long point. Not once but over and over (i.e. 'carroting') I think a zwiehander in the hands of an expert could probably cut several pikes at once.
And don't forget, if you cut three or four feet off the end of a few pikes, you are instantly giving a significant local reach advantage to the pikemen on your side of the line...
Bottom line; they used these things in vast numbers. They equipped their most elite soldiers with them. They used them to arm bodyguards and shock troops. The Landsknechts and (especially) the Swiss were pragmatic, efficient killers. They knew the business of war. I think they had good reasons to make these weapons the way they did.
Jean
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Henri Chandler wrote: | | Bottom line; they used these things in vast numbers. They equipped their most elite soldiers with them. They used them to arm bodyguards and shock troops. The Landsknechts and (especially) the Swiss were pragmatic, efficient killers. They knew the business of war. I think they had good reasons to make these weapons the way they did. |
But don't forget that they also used straight bladed versions of these as well. Even when talking about breaking pike formations, you saw both styles of blade.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise. -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Grandy wrote: | | Jean Henri Chandler wrote: | | Bottom line; they used these things in vast numbers. They equipped their most elite soldiers with them. They used them to arm bodyguards and shock troops. The Landsknechts and (especially) the Swiss were pragmatic, efficient killers. They knew the business of war. I think they had good reasons to make these weapons the way they did. |
But don't forget that they also used straight bladed versions of these as well. Even when talking about breaking pike formations, you saw both styles of blade. |
Of course,. I would say that just from my own unscientific observations over the years the wavy blade types actually seem if anything a bit more common, but I don't think the wavy blade shape had anything to do with cutting pikes better. Thats a seperate issue from the shape of the blade IMHO.
J
Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum
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Peter Dietl
Location: Munich/Germany Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Henri Chandler wrote: | | Peter Dietl wrote: | Hello,
sorry if Iīm not using the right terms or right words, itīs not my native language
Iīm not lucky with the picture of Landsknechts with huge swords swinging them to cut off long pikes aiming to their stomach. Fighting in a Gewalthaufen (is there a english term for this formation?) means very few room to move and making a heavy stroke could also hit some of Your own comrades..not good. On the other side stood men with long, flexible pikes from 4,5 to 5 m, so if You hit a pike on the head it would switch to the side, also because most of the former warriors hadnīt the shape of Arnie and their arms put more rubber in the system. You might be lucky to damage some of the pikes, but surely paying it with some wholes in Your waist...a Bidenhander (of beeing a Flamberge or a sword with straight edges) was in my opinion most of the time used to hit the pikemen, not the pike or to tear down the pikes to allow the sword and halbardfighter to force their way in the middle of the enemies Gewalthaufen, where the work for the Katzbalgers and Bassilards begun.Most of the members of Landsknechtgroups in our region (itīs also called Landsknechtland because many of these guys came from the countryside where Iīm living today) today say those swords are mostly posing swords for guards, so they have to look dangerous. If it comes to a fight, a halberd or a Bastardsword was the choice. |
I'm sorry, I find the idea of weapons being carried into a dangerous environment like that just because they looked scary to be laughable. Two-handed swords were carried by doppledoldner and bodyguards to capitans and standard bearers, they were used in the same manner as halberds.
As I pointed out in the last post, they also became quite popular as individual dueling weapons and they appear in several fechtbuchs.
Jean |
Ok, I fear, thereīs a little problem, I didnīt found any pictures ore something showing it in combat in formation, when I saw examples in combat, it was mostly dueling as You mentioned in the foreground of the picture. Have You something about using it in the Gewalthaufen or did You use such a huge sword in a narrow condition, Your comrades near on Your side an pikes in front of You? Itīs quite different, we try to train it in groups no less than 50 men (laughable if You compare it to the reality of 10000 trooper..) an there You find out the difficulties to match this weapon, especially trying to hit the pikes. I agree, surely this weapon wasnīt a hanger on the wall, but in my opinion it did not reach a halbard or longsword. Please, if You have any sources to make me abandon this opinion, I will love it, because then I have a reason to buy a example of this weapon (I think, I will buy one even without source....
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George Hill
Location: Atlanta Ga Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Wed 28 Feb, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Henri Chandler wrote: |
And don't forget, if you cut three or four feet off the end of a few pikes, you are instantly giving a significant local reach advantage to the pikemen on your side of the line...
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I quite agree, and I do not see why this argument is continuously downrated when this subject comes up. Even one foot and the metal tip removed, would make the pike much less effective. If you did have the ability to remove many heads prior to the main push, you would have weakened the enemy formation considerably. If both sides started off with pikes say, X feet long, and suddenly one side had staffs X minus 1 feet long, they would have gone from equal footing to a disadvantage.
As to the waves, I have no opinion of smooth waves, but the ones which look like repeated half circles, that might have an effect on a pike, as one would be less inclined to glance off, and perhaps more inclined to break.
Also, those masters who speak of attacking the enemy and not his weapon assumed you would personally be dispatching the other fellow, if you got that far. If your job was only to weaken a formation, and not to personally do the killing as a result of attacking the weapon, that would be a different matter. You would be in a combat support role, of great value, but not under the baseline assumption of the masters giving that advice.
To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Henri Chandler wrote: | | I have seen steak knives and carving knives with exactly that type of serration. Another idea occurred to me; is there any consensus in the Pacific Islands as to the purpose of the wave-blade shape of the 'Kris' type knives? |
The curves in the keris are ceremonial or, rather, mystical. They're meant to serve as symbols that aid the use of the weapon in certain rituals and ceremonies for a variety of purposes. The keris itself has metamorphosed from a practical weapon to the ceremonial tool it is now. If it's any godd as a weapon, then it's as a backstabbing weapon.
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Korey J. Lavoie
Location: New Hampshire, USA Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: |
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I eagerly look forward to the chance to read the results of a cutting test of Flammard Vs. Straight edge Zweihanders. Either way, I'd do anything short of murder to own one of the originals of either variety . . . Such beautiful, Awe-inspiring weapons.
From the hundred year war
To the Crimea
With a Lance and a Musket and a Roman Spear
To all of the Men who have stood with no fear
In the Service of the King
-The Clash: The Card Cheat
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Peter Dietl wrote: |
Ok, I fear, thereīs a little problem, I didnīt found any pictures ore something showing it in combat in formation, when I saw examples in combat, it was mostly dueling as You mentioned in the foreground of the picture. Have You something about using it in the Gewalthaufen or did You use such a huge sword in a narrow condition, Your comrades near on Your side an pikes in front of You? Itīs quite different, we try to train it in groups no less than 50 men (laughable if You compare it to the reality of 10000 trooper..) an there You find out the difficulties to match this weapon, especially trying to hit the pikes. I agree, surely this weapon wasnīt a hanger on the wall, but in my opinion it did not reach a halbard or longsword. Please, if You have any sources to make me abandon this opinion, I will love it, because then I have a reason to buy a example of this weapon (I think, I will buy one even without source.... |
Peter,
I commend you for training historical arms drill particularly in such large numbers!
I don't think that the two-handers were used from within the main formations (Gewalt or Vorhut) the images I have seen portray them on the flanks with the gunners or marksmen, and in small, looser formations roaming around the battlefield (forlorn hope).
My source is primarily the various Osprey Military books; the Swiss at War, Landsknecht Soldier, and The Landsknechts IIRC. They do include sources including period paintings depicting the formations which were used, though I don't remember if there are any paintings showing two-handers in combat. You often see drawings and paintings of a dopplesoldner posing with one. There are also many drawings of combat by guys like hans holbein, urs graf, paul dolstein etc. etc. I will check those sources out and list some here.
But I always understood these weapons were used in somewhat looser formations, that seems to be the way I have always seen them portrayed on the deployment charts and in the paintings.
Also, keep in mind, a zweihander is not necessarily used just "conventionally" as a sword, i.e. with great sweeping chopping attacks. A zwiehander can be used almost exactly like a halberd; you rely heavily on half-sword guards, thrusting, etc. I mean most of them have at least a 16" ricasso. It's a very formidable and versatile weapon. I have only used padded wasters to spar with, and never in huge formations, but I can't imagine anything you could do with a bill or a halberd that you couldn't do with a zweihander.
Jean
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Giuseppe Maresca
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| Posted: Fri 02 Mar, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: |
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This is just a thought, but if the wavy edge is so good in draw cuts, why don't we find it on curved blades that, I think, could gain a great advantage from this?
Dai diamanti non nasce niente, dal letame nascono i fiori...
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George Hill
Location: Atlanta Ga Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Fri 02 Mar, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Giuseppe Maresca wrote: | | This is just a thought, but if the wavy edge is so good in draw cuts, why don't we find it on curved blades that, I think, could gain a great advantage from this? |
You mean like this?
It's a cutlass from the albums.
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage....&pos=8
To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 02 Mar, 2007 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| George Hill wrote: | | Giuseppe Maresca wrote: | | This is just a thought, but if the wavy edge is so good in draw cuts, why don't we find it on curved blades that, I think, could gain a great advantage from this? |
You mean like this?
It's a cutlass from the albums.
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage....&pos=8 |
It's been a while, but if I recall correctly that type of cutlass was an attempt to make a weapon that could double as a "saw" for cutting things like rope while onboard a ship. I seem to recall that it was also a failed attempt, as people found it wasn't very good at either task.
Edited to add: I say this based on a discussion that was on SFI many years ago about this very type of cutlass. I don't know the sources of those comments myself.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise. -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Fri 02 Mar, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Bill Grandy"] | George Hill wrote: | | Giuseppe Maresca wrote: | | This is just a thought, but if the wavy edge is so good in draw cuts, why don't we find it on curved blades that, I think, could gain a great advantage from this? |
You mean like this?
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I think the point of the scalloped or wavy edges is to make a strait blade which isn't ordinarily effective at draw-cutting, such as a rapier or two-hander, somewhat more effective in the draw cut. I don't think it makes much sense to make a curved sword scaloped edged since a curved sword would already be good at slicing.
Thats an interesting cutlass though, and looks in pretty good shape.
Jean
Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum
Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
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