[Joe Fults]

I am so in the less than thrilled bucket.

Frankly I'm trying to decide what options I have, if any, other than sitting on my hands.

That said, Albion has always been very up front about the fact that the price you order something for, is the price you will pay. They have never once suggested, to my knowledge, that prices on outstanding orders will change.

Right now, their major problems seem to an inability to get new models to market when they say they will, high employee turnover, and some other internal business issues (per their publication). Although I suppose I must admit that they fixed the problem with new model time to market by removing all estimated production dates from their website.

[Roger Hooper]

In the past, once you cut a deal to buy an unreleased sword, and made partial or full payment, your price stayed the same, no matter what might happen to that model's price later. I would be thunderstruck if Albion changed that policy. There is no evedence that they have done that..

I'm irritated because a sword I wanted to buy was first to be released in early 2006. then moved to mid 2006, to late 2006, and now, who knows?

[Nathan Robinson]

[Jeff Gentry]

Hey Joe

[Joe Fults]

[Craig Peters]

[Jeff Gentry]

Craig

[Thomas Jason]

I think it's clear from the latest news and changes that Albion's current business model is not working as they intended.

I'm sure that the reason that some models are taking precedence over others is due to the fact that they likely have to receive X number of preorders in order to justify the costs of entering into production. If enough pre-orders are not received they can't cover the cost of manufacture. They can't use the downpayments from other models in order to fund production of less popular ones as they will receive more money from the remaining payments when they produce the more popular ones.

I think it's clear that Albion needs to modify their business plan.

The new Albion Benefactor's plan is alienating the customer base, and I would be surprised that the received few members.

I think Albion needs to look into consolidating their brands, and perhaps produce other items with a broader appeal.

Perhaps an Albion Cutlery line... I know a lot of collectors in the knife world would be more than excited about a new line of Jody Samson balisongs...

[Joe Fults]

Thomas,

Parts of you idea would certainly help them control costs.

[Thomas Jason]

I think it's also pretty clear that the Film Swords line is likely their least profitable line.

Too much competition from Marto and other companies that produce pure wallhanger versions of the blades.

Granted there are some of Albion's most beautiful best offerings in the line, but there are also a good number that have likely never lived up to sales expectations.

Licensing costs may also be a loss leader for Albion due to a few films turning out to be disasters at the box office, such as Timeline, Sleepy Hollow and the last few Highlander films. There are die-hard fans, but with the wall-hangers from the competition, and steep production and licensing costs...

I would likely refocus the line, and work on reducing costs, and picking up less expensive licenses.

The safest bet, and although many would consider this blasphemy, would be to turn it into a wall-hanger line with the "functional option" being a custom type route.

[Roger Hooper]

[Thomas Jason]

Like I said, it's not preferable, but think about it, what are 99% of the swords in the line used for?

Not many WMA practitioners using the Atlantean for practice...

If it's a choice between losing the line and making it profitable, I think the choice is obvious.

[Paul Watson]

While I can understand peoples frustration at having to wait for a pre-ordered item, who would want a compromised product. If a sword takes longer in R&D to perfect, then Albion are only going to release it when it is ready. Instead of being derided for the extra time taken due to whatever circumstances they should be commended for putting in the extra time to get the swords absolutely correct. Think about how the market for historically accurate swords would be without Albion. If they are just another company then why are they the subject of so much discussion? The reason is their products are the best. And although they may have delays with some models, look at all the releases they acheived towards the end of last year.

[Joe Fults]

I think this will be the last comment I make on this thread.

I called Albion today and talked about my concerns. Mike, as always, was very patient with me and I feel a bit better about everything. With some luck, this will all blow over shortly because we'll have other things to talk about.

If you have concerns, then I think you should take the time to call Albion too. This weekend I spent far to much time speculating on this issue than I should have. Although it was refreshing to vent, it did nothing to put things into perspective, so it really just amounted to a poor use of my time. Todays conversation was much better time allocation.

I'm still reluctant to buy anything else that is not in production until the stuff I already have on order comes into production, but I'm more comfortable that I'll still see things when I expect to see them.

They are in the office now, so in fairness, if you think you have a beef, talk to them.

[Chad Arnow]

[Roger Hooper]

[Paul Watson]

Paul,
Let's use an analogy: Let's say your airline flight is delayed due to a mechanical issue. Many people will be satisfied that the airline took the time to get it right, regardless of how late it makes them. The people in business class whose financial deals are falling apart or the man missing the delivery of his child because of the delay are not consoled. Neither group expects the aircraft to lift off with faulty parts and in an unsafe condition. The bottom line is that the airline has two duties: safety and on-time delivery of people. Some people are willing to overlook the second in favor of the first.

Albion (and most companies in the business world) has two duties: make a good product and get it to their customers. No one here expects Albion will rush a product to completion to the product's (and customer's) detriment. They have a duty to get things "absolutely correct." But some people will hold Albion to their delivery times also, not just to the expectation of a good product.

Chad, delivery times are important and this is something that Albion are obviously working through, but people were not assesing the delivery on time situation as a whole and the criticism of them seemed to be disproportionate to the actual problems. The analogy you provide is correct in principle although in this situation it does not bear out in direct comparism.

Albion are very good as far as informing people goes, providing updates via their web site with regards to the production of their swords (ie the status of blade design, waxes going off to Peter for final shaping etc). There is no denying that they have set back release dates on some models but if you are going to place a deposit on a product that is still in development then realistically there will be some delays.

Albion have probably removed all release dates due to the negative feedback. Now we have absolutely no indication of time frames, and the argument that the time frames were wrong once again is only applicable to some models. If you look at the models that these apply to it appears to be the more difficult sword types like the Munich which is based on a very intricate sword, and the range of single edged swords. These are ground breaking reproductions and possibly the research involved with them is more than Albion originally anticipated.

If anything Albion are suffering from being too good at what they do, the demands must be high on them to get these swords out because so many people appreciate the value of how the swords are made and want to own one (or more), but instead of compromising the quality of their product they are going to keep on their true path as far as producing these historically accurate swords goes. Any criticism levelled at them must be placed in context with what they are acheiving in the market which as far as I can see is unique. I'm not saying they deserve a free ride and are not answerable, no-one does, but it is dissapointing to see such a great company turned on relatively quickly by some of it's customers. All this talk and speculation of problems is just plain dangerous and less than fully informed, and could become self fulfilling if people take away their support from Albion (ie stop buying the swords).

The price increase was not drastic across the board, Albion warned everyone well in advance and even offered discounts prior to the increase, how many companies keep you that well informed and give you that sort of opportunity with items that are going to be continued to be supplied at an increased price? Some of the top end models seemed to increase a bit more proportionately but many of the swords are within what I would call a reasonable price range.

Once again I would say imagine this market without Albion. How many people reading this own one (or more)? How does that sword compare to others you own? Do you think about the quality of the sword or the $100 you saved on a cheaper option? I would rather own one awesome sword than any number of swords that were less than perfect.

[James Nordstrom]

I think the whole lot of you need a little of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Swiss_cheese_cubes.jpg with your comments.

Seems to me that every time a sword maker becomes a little more successful than they had originally thought they get a tad behind schedule. And of course threads like this come up and regurgitate well beaten over ground.

Sheese.

Also, as to the price increase, I do not know about the lot of you, but my gas bill is up 60% from last year at this time. Having been to Albion I can only imagine what their energy costs have gone up.

Cheers
Jim

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Edward Hitchens]

Just out of curiosity...

Albion's price increase has obviously caused quite a stir, otherwise this topic wouldn't be taking up 4 pages (and counting). Other swordmakers have increased their prices from time to time and we say "D'oh!" and not make a big fuss of it. So why the big fuss of Albion's price increase?

Is it because some models saw a higher margin of increase than others? Is it because of the delays in production? Our mixed emotions of their Benefactor's Society?