Proper carry for Smallsword? -- myArmoury.com

Eric Gerry · Posted: Sun 07 Dec, 2003 9:41 am Post subject: Proper carry for Smallsword?

Hey All,

I'm expecting a Hanwei "Scottish Court Sword" come the 25th, and I'm wondering what sort of belt I should get to carry it. I'm really keen on baldrics and am looking at this one: http://www.gggodwin.com/465.htm ,or else maybe the cheaper MRL baldric (anyone know of other sources?). But is this historically accurate? Would I be better off with one of those rapier carriers?

Thanks in advance,

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 08 Dec, 2003 7:04 am Post subject:

Hey, Eric. I don't have my copy of Neumann (Swords and Blades of the American Rev.) at work or I'd post a photo of exactly the thing you need. If nobody comes up with it by tomorrow I'll post the photo. Nuemann has outstanding information about British and continental scabbards and suspension systems of the period of your smallsword. Your best bet might be to take Neumann's drawings to a leather shop in your town and have them make the piece. Might be cheaper and certainly would be more historically accurate than off-the-shelf. If you like edged weapons of this period you should get Neumann's book. It's a fantastic reference.
-Sean

Eric Gerry · Posted: Mon 08 Dec, 2003 1:45 pm Post subject:

Cheaper? Really?

And yes, I'd love to see the illustrations. Thanks!

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 08 Dec, 2003 2:01 pm Post subject:

"Cheaper? Really?"

Could be, especially if you can figure out the measurements yourself and/or supply a paper template. You might even be able to get the leather folks to cut out the pieces for you to assemble. Oh, well...just buy the leather from 'em and do the whole thing yourself! ;-/
I'll get the illustrations for you tonight. By the way, that's a pretty little sword you're getting! It deserves nice suspension....

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 08 Dec, 2003 5:31 pm Post subject:

These three from Neumann look most appropriate. As far as I can tell, 18th c. Brit and American military officers typically carried their smallswords in the waist belt suspension system shown here. MRL does have something similar for about $40, but their suspensory straps are much too short. You could easily custom make your own by getting a heavy belt and making the two straps from a long leather dog leash. I guess you could find buckles at a fabric store. If you want to be really sporty, it wouldn't be too difficult to make one of those nifty chain-and-beltplate hangers from chain and sheet brass.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 08 Dec, 2003 5:34 pm Post subject:

And here's a view of Geo Washington's ss and belt from Peterson.

Eric Gerry · Posted: Tue 09 Dec, 2003 10:16 am Post subject:

Excellent! Thanks! I think I'll go with the baldric, as the lazy s.o.b. in me likes the idea of just being able to sling it on without fiddling with buckles.

Is old George's piece there a colichemarde? I was under the impression that those had gone out of fashion around 1700...

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 09 Dec, 2003 10:52 am Post subject:

This is indeed a colichemarde, and they seem to have still been common at the time of the rev.
I think the baldric is a fine alternative. I think I'd certainly prefer it. On the same page in Neumann as these, there's a velvet-faced American officers baldric with cuttoe/hunting hanger. The main difference between it and the one shown here is that the ends are sewn together so as to give the frog a slight forward tilt so that the tip of the sword would be directed toward the back rather than hang straight down. I saw a modern illustration in another book showing Prince Charles Edward Stuart wearing baldric and smallsword at the time of the Jacobite rebellion. That and the general preference for baldrics may suggest a good Scottish (French influenced?) precedent for the baldric/ss combo. According to Neumann (or is it Peterson?), 18th c. officers typically had a dress sword (smallsword or cuttoe) for general wear and a cutting sword or saber for combat. A baldric would work well for either. Be sure to show us what you end up with! I'd like to know what you think of this weapon.

Eric Gerry · Posted: Tue 09 Dec, 2003 12:08 pm Post subject:

Perhaps it's just that us backward Yanks were behind the times. Happy

The site I linked earlier may offer another shoulder-sling that matches what you describe (though it's hard to tell from the pic). Is this it? http://www.gggodwin.com/46.htm

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 09 Dec, 2003 12:43 pm Post subject:

That looks like it, but plainer, and I just had a "duh" moment because I looked at the CASI smallsword and saw that it has a knob on its scabbard throat (for baldric carry) as opposed to rings (for waistbelt carry). One of those 18th c. baldrics would be just the thing for this scabbard.

Stephen A. Fisher · Posted: Tue 09 Dec, 2003 1:19 pm Post subject:

Eric,

I took a few quick pictures for you of the Hanwei smallsword with MRL's European baldric.

Stephen A. Fisher · Posted: Tue 09 Dec, 2003 1:29 pm Post subject:

If I were you I'd get a Godwin piece, they are historically accurate and IMO would look better then the MRL baldric.

Eric Gerry · Posted: Thu 11 Dec, 2003 9:52 am Post subject:

Thanks guys, that pretty much cinches it! I'll try and post pics when the time comes. Cool