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Martin Wallgren
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 Posted: Thu 30 Mar, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: Wooden armour in Europe? |
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This is a question based on a personal theory of mine. I don´t know of any European armour but in the "Jackchain" thrad somebody mensioned wooden splinter used by Swiss Mercenarys. I´ve heared of bricks of bone, horn and hardwood sewn into jacks and other textile armour.
Is there any archelogical or historical evidence of other kind of wooden armour? Splinters? Its hard to chop firewood in the wrong way. Asian armour had wooden parts I belive. I have in mind to test this if there is references to it somewhere. I have in mind wooden splints sewninto vambraces and grooves or simillar. As a reinforsment to wear over a longslieved armingcoat. Just for the sake of experimental purpouse.
Please share your oppinions on this!
Martin
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Dan Howard
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| Posted: Thu 30 Mar, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Maurice mentions wooden splint greaves in the Strategikion (sp?).
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Wolfgang Armbruster
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| Posted: Thu 30 Mar, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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The Info about the Swiss soldiers with the wooden sticks attached to their arms comes from this site:
http://www.infozentralschweiz.ch/schlacht_bei_sempach.htm
The part about the wooden armour:
| Quote: | | Viele trugen keinen Harnisch, sondern hatten sich zum Schutze bloss Prügel und Brettchen an die Arme gebunden. |
Translation: Many didn't wear a harness, but had only clubs and little boards bound to their arms as defences.
Unfortunately the site doesn't give any info on where this info or text is from, but the same text about the battle at Sempach appears on several Swiss websites on history.
Nevertheless, to me it makes perfect sense. You're a poor swiss farmer and all you have is a dagger or Messer and your polearm. You know you will have to deal with people wearing mail-shirts and plate-armour so you're trying to find a solution and the only stuff available everywhere in large quantities (and it's for free) is wood. It might stop blows or at least save you from getting cut if it's a slicing attack.
@Dan Howard: It's "Strategikon" *g*
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Jessica Finley
Industry Professional
Location: Topeka, Kansas Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 110
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 30 Mar, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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That's very interesting, Jessica. I've seen that doublet at the Met, and I had no idea it had wooden splints in it. Pretty cool, I wish the display said something about this.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Jessica Finley
Industry Professional
Location: Topeka, Kansas Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Thu 30 Mar, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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I will drag out my copy of Patterns of Fashion tomorrow and quote her on it, but there definately is a stiffener in there which she suspects to be wood, though it could have been whalebone or some other stiff material.
I wish I could get my hands on that doublet... what I could learn in 10 minutes of holding the actual garment. *sigh*
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Dan Howard
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| Posted: Fri 31 Mar, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt the splints in that jack are of wood. Baleen ("whale bone") is a more likely contender.
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Fabrice Cognot
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 09 Apr, 2006 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Dan Howard wrote: | | I doubt the splints in that jack are of wood. Baleen ("whale bone") is a more likely contender. |
There is a somewhat similar doublet at the Stibbert museum in Florence (and I have been lucky enough to take a close examination of it).
Baleen, indeed.
PhD in medieval archeology.
HEMAC member
De Taille et d'Estoc director
Maker of high quality historical-inspired pieces.
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Jonathon Janusz
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| Posted: Sun 09 Apr, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Not to rain on the parade, but I've studied that jacket a bit. . . if memory serves, any splints or bone in the garment I have heard of have been referred to as "boning", or more specifically, rigid support within the garment to hold it and the body inside in a particular shape kind of like modern interfacing only stiffer. Like what is used in corsets, more a tailoring thing than an armour thing.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't serve the function all the same, but the root of the matter here would seem to hinge on the intent of the design  .
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Mark Eskra
Location: Hillsboro Illinois Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Wed 14 Jun, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: The swiss |
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Saw a piece (chestplate) made by pouring sand and hot oil onto a piece of crude veneer to make the curves. The point was not that the wood would stop a sword, but that the curve(s) would deflect.
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This is a standard topic