[Stephen Hand]

Dear Michael,

Thanks for the offer of a beer. I used to live in Sydney, but escaped to a smaller, saner part of the country.

[Michael A White]

Nathan,

Your listed city and State is normally the most open to limiting ownership of these types of items. I know Cold Steel has to sell some products out of another state to get around California law. What types of proposals are you seeing there? Both local, and statewide? Is there a well organized movement supporting bans forming? Should there be some sort of alert system or topic on your website just to keep the member sup on items pending in their nations. Is the US community begining to forming some sort of trade group and/ or membership based association to provide a single voice? I am concerned about members getting involved in other nations domestic issues. Is there a member who might be an attorney willing to answer questions on this? If you think this is as big of a threat as you wrote, then someone needs to begin planning something. If community waits like the British seem to have, will it not lose?



M. A. White

[Michael A White]

Mr. Hand,


Thank you for your last post.

I think I now understand your point. I think maybe I allowed my pride to get the best of my intellect. I was offended by your statement on firearms, and that blinded me to your real point. I can be a very stubborn person at times. You are right, a baseball bat is not a weapon, nor is a piece of pipe, and neither is a piece of lumber. But each can be used for harm if someone wanted to.

I understand you leaving Sydney. Great town, but very large. I have been to four or five of your nations cities, and the most fun I ever had was in a little town called Bunberry or Bunburry, not sure of the spelling, in Western Australia. I remember the first time I ordered a beer, I asked for a "Fosters" brand, an older gentleman kindly informed me that, "Australians do not drink that." I soon learned to drink EB in Perth, and VB in Sydney.


In reguards to the US law question. I was asking questions to a friend who is a professional lobbyist (For a pork producers group.), and she made the comment that there were US Federal laws limiting the involment of foreign nationals in lobbying US domestic affairs. She did not go into detail. That was why I asked if maybe you knew more.


Sincerely,

Michael A. White

[Nathan Robinson]

[Jean Thibodeau]

Stephen;

I think your point is also sinking in about swords not being weapons in the modern context.

We ( Some ), here may be harder to convince because the " word " weapon is not a " dirty word " for us so our reaction to the word is positive as opposed to those you are trying to convince where weapon always seems to be associated with violence or negative things.

In the modern context sword are not weapons, if they were, modern armies would abandon using firearms and equipped their soldiers with swords instead.

Even the police would be using swords instead of pistols, tazers or pepper spray.

Maybe a silly example but: Lets say we built a war fleet of 4th B.C. century Greek Triremes, these in their time would be war ships i.e. Weapons of war ! A weapon in the large sense of the word ! Now, would you consider a fleet of these as weapons or as historical reconstructions. I guess someone could " with a lot of rowers " misuse a Trireme to ram a small sail boat and misuse it as a weapon. BUT no-one would build one or many with this intent.

Just using the philosophical principal of argument by the absurd to make a point: Hope this is useful and not more counter productive input. At the very least I hope at worse too weird to be useful.

[Shawn Mulock]

I have found this thread to particularly interesting to me, as I am in Canada, where there have been tiny rumblings about the threat of a ban on swords. Well, more like media hype.

I have never considered swords to be weapons as one would define an artifact whose purpose at one time may have been to kill. I also do not consider firearms to be weapons unless they are being used as such. It is all in the context of the application of the tool.

I consider swords to be items from my rich, long and strong cultural heritage which includes family of status in both England and Germany. I have had people ask me why I train with swords and I tell them that I am connecting to my heritage. Not once has anybody gone from that statement to asking me how dangerous it is. I always maintain a degree of historical context in my conversations with the uninitiated.

During our demonstrations we speak about the effectiveness of swords and just how swiftly they can be used, but it is always in reference to training, history and heritage, never the sword as a "weapon".

[Stephen Hand]

[Cole Sibley]

I dislike politics, and politicians, and I'm suprised at myself for even responding to a post of this nature (however, thanks to Nathan for allowing a place for us to express ourselves).

<Edited>
I deleted an angry response to my perception of Mr. Hands' closed mindness and short sightedness, as it does not relate to this web site's focus (thanks again Nathan).

Regarding swords:
I am of the opinion the sword is a tool, and should be treated as such. I do not appreciate or accept Anyones attempts to regulate the way I live my life, and if I want to swing my sword at my pell, I will do so. Perhaps I cannot do whatever I want in someone else's Salle (nor would I want or expect to), but in my own, I will do as I please. My freedoms are precious to me, and I will not give them up.

[Nathan Robinson]

[Bob Burns]

I would like to thank both Stephen and Nathan for their work in communications whether it is teaching the martial arts of the use of the sword, the historical and artistic value of the sword and what it has contributed to society through the ages.
Speaking as someone who studied martial arts to the rank of black belt, karate to be specific, it was never the venue of the schools or the students that I know of that the purpose of learning karate was to go out and maim or kill people. The teaching and learning was much more so for the learning of wisdom in mind body and spirit, to grow in character as well as to learn mind and body coordination. The school where I earned my black belt and the several other schools I attended for a time through the years all taught that when a situation has come to violence in most scenarios the martial artist has failed in what he has learned and allowed the situation to get out of his control wherein he should have been able to utilize the years of his learning to subdue the situation without the use of violence. As I said, in "most" situations, in reality there are situations where there are no alternatives, but I can personally say that I have not had to resort to any violence in some 27 years, and in fact the situation that resorted to violence 27 years ago was a failure on my part to control it.
My rank was achieved in October of 2004, after an on and off studying of martial arts through the years, so I am also speaking from recent knowledge. The violence of students was admonished by all instructors at all four schools.
My point here is this, the art of learning how to use the sword is very much like the art I studied, it is to teach introspective learning, harmony between the mind, body, spirit and sword. I understand the sword to be a symbol of honor and therefore a learning tool to teach us to grow in virtue. Although I have never formally trained at a school in the use of swords except for a little bit of Kendo years ago, I am pretty sure that Stephen would agree with me on this.
I have learned how to use all kinds of things as a weapon and I surely do not need a sword to accomplish great bodily harm, that can be done with a pencil or a pen or a whole bunch of different objects readily available to anyone.

Just as the pencil or pen is a learning tool, so is the sword, not only does it teach honor, spiritual, mind and body harmony, it teaches respect. For one to disrespect the sword while practicing a person could cause themselve's physical harm. Something that harms or kills many more people than anything else is the automobile but I highly doubt society would be willing to go back to the days of the horse and buggy to save lives.

Thank you Stephen and Nathan and everyone else involved in the teaching and production of the sword, you make available to all of us a very important learning tool

Sincerely,

Bob

[Stephen Hand]

Cole,

You argue for your right to own swords and state that you dislike politics. Then you criticise the person who is spending his time getting involved in this grubby world on your behalf, so you can continue to own your swords.

I don't like politics any more than you do. It's just that I've made a decision to stand up and fight for our rights to own swords and unfortunately that means getting involved in politics.

What precisely do you think I'm arguing in favour of?

[Allan Senefelder]

I guess i'm missing something here since what Steven put forward back of the begining of this thread makes complete sense to me . This is about sales and he's told you the sales pitch to the sort of people who are going to line up for the ego boosting sense of superiority that comes from "protecting you from yourself" becuase "they know better than you" whats "for your own good" and are seeking to relieve you of your property to do it so if you wish to keep your property you need to pitch it in a way that appeals to thier sense of superiority because logic won't work. How is this done? Pitch swords as objects d'arte since art is a term far to broadly painted with today and any schmuck in a apartment smearing fecise(sp) on a canvas and getting a government grant to do it is creating "art" in these sorts of peoples lexicon since it appeals to that same sense of ego boosting superiority to "get it" that thats art and your not bright enough to will latch onto the idea that swords are okay because thier art and artistic endevores to feed thier ego. Its just a sales pitch and one that makes a great deal of sense when you consider the personality types we're discussing here. It is irrelevant that "we" know swords are weapons we're not looking to ban them it is relevant that the folks on the other side come to believe they're not or you won't own them one day. There is sense to be made in this context of Steven's approch after all aren't alot of collections of arms and armour in art museums today.

Even from a consumer standpoint using this pitch works. Think of it in terms of those stupid collector plates that The Frankiln Mints always doing (the ones with kittens and dogs or Elvis) . These will never have food served on them , they will never be used as service wear they were made as and bought by people who will either 1) display them on a wall, mantle or in a china cabinet so they're art or 2) store them in thier original box for 30 years to sell thinking they'll accrue value over time so thier an investment neither of which has anything to do with being an plate so "its not a plate". It looks like a plate but beacuse of its use its "not a plate". "We" know its a plate(and a badly decorated one at that) but the perception of those that buy it is of anything but. This change in perception as it exists for people who buy these things(plates) can be brought about in the folks who would like to climb so far up your posterior they can reach out your mouth and drive your car for you regarding the issue of owning swords by using this pitch to appeal to thier egotistical sense of intelectual superiority. Thats whats important if you want to continue to own these things.

Stevens also correct about the press . These people who are exactly of the sort we're discussing make aliving off of mischaracterising,misquaoting and misrepresenting thing to achieve thier desired outcome. Do you really trust these people to not troll through a place like this, a rich treasure trove of goods to do all of the above with and not do so if theres hay to made of it? I sure don't. It sucks and all but it is an unfortunate reality of the world we live in. They're the folks to be
pissed at and guarded around.


This is about you keeping your toys and the slaes pitch to allow you to do so and not much more as far as I can tell.

Off the soap box now.

[Bill Grandy]

Excellent points, Allan.

We can argue about the semantics of what "sword" means until our faces are blue. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference how *we* define the word, it makes all the difference in the world how legislators do. Let's make sure that we paint this hobby in the correct light.

[Michael A White]

Stephen Hand Wrote.

"VB is a passable quaffing beer, but I tend to think of it as a tribute to Australia's ongoing quest for inoffensive mediocrity. When in Sydney I drink Reschs. I am lucky enough to live where most of Australia's beer ingredients are grown, and the local beer is brewed with meltwater from the mountain in Australia's oldest brewery, Cascade. Mmmm."

I find this very disturbing. I feel taken. Maybe that's what I get for playing tourist. If you ever find your self in Singapore try "Tiger" beer, that is "inoffensive mediocrity", and at only S$ 10.00 a bottle the last time I was there. This summer I will try some, Reschs. Thank you for the heads up.


I have found the it is much easier to work in local politics. (Large amount of money is the only thing that seems to matter in US national politics these days.) We ( the whole community of interested parties.) managed to override the veto of our states governor's on a law that was needed. That was the first override in the state for over a hundred years. This year we plan on roling back offending laws from the past.

In one post you spoke of a "Form letter." for sending to political officals concerning this subject. If Nathan would allow it, you should post one. If not, would you please PM it to me. I am attending a university at night and I have to do a term project on public policy, my professor seems to think I could make this my topic.

Have a great week.

Michael A. White

Would someone please educate me on how all of you are posting the quotes from past posts?

[Russ Ellis]

[Edward Hitchens]