Here's something I've been thinking about. If there is one sword I've really wanted for a quite a while now, it would be a Swiss saber with a katzbalger-style guard.
Now, from what I can understand, a Swiss saber is basically a type of hybrid between saber and longsword/bastard sword. I'm also aware that there were in fact bastard swords with katzbalger guards. Finally, unless I'm mistaken, these two types of swords were popular at about the same time period in about the same part of the world.
With this in mind, it doesn't strike me as unreasonable to suggest such a hybrid weapon might really have existed. Just, I've never actually seen one. So now I wonder; how historically plausible is it?
Hi Anders...
This is the closest I have seen.
It's from the Veilingopbrengsten Auctions awhile back.
Total Length 101 cm
Dated as about 1450
ks
Attachment: 97.62 KB
This is the closest I have seen.
It's from the Veilingopbrengsten Auctions awhile back.
Total Length 101 cm
Dated as about 1450
ks
Attachment: 97.62 KBLack of a proof of a presense in not a proof of an absense so I'd have to say that theoretically it is possible. One thing to remember is that the katzsbalger was a weapon of the Landsknaught whereas the Swiss saber would have been with the Swiss pikemen. The two groups detested each other and often would refuse to give quarter to the other. There might have been a little reluctance to use elements of the opposing force's weaponry. That said, the "Swiss" saber was also used in southern Germany, so I guess that anything is possible.
As far as twohanded Katzsbalger of bastard sword proportions here is a custom one made by A & A:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/custom914.html
As far as adding a Swiss sabre style hand guard I guess it would be possible.
Now, if historical accuracy, in that one can prove that at least one of these is documented, is not an absolute essential thing for you, you could just decide to have one custom made a a semi-fantasy piece ?
If for your own satisfaction and not for a re-enactment or living history purpose one can indulge oneself with original design concepts. ;)
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/custom914.html
As far as adding a Swiss sabre style hand guard I guess it would be possible.
Now, if historical accuracy, in that one can prove that at least one of these is documented, is not an absolute essential thing for you, you could just decide to have one custom made a a semi-fantasy piece ?
If for your own satisfaction and not for a re-enactment or living history purpose one can indulge oneself with original design concepts. ;)
| Kirk Lee Spencer wrote: |
| Hi Anders...
This is the closest I have seen. It's from the Veilingopbrengsten Auctions awhile back. Total Length 101 cm Dated as about 1450 ks |
Interesting, though it looks more like a katzbalger/early baskethilt hybrid.
| Doug Lester wrote: |
| Lack of a proof of a presense in not a proof of an absense so I'd have to say that theoretically it is possible. One thing to remember is that the katzsbalger was a weapon of the Landsknaught whereas the Swiss saber would have been with the Swiss pikemen. The two groups detested each other and often would refuse to give quarter to the other. There might have been a little reluctance to use elements of the opposing force's weaponry. That said, the "Swiss" saber was also used in southern Germany, so I guess that anything is possible. |
Very interesting; I didn't know they were enemies. That would certainly explain the general lack of katzbalger sabers. ;)
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
| As far as twohanded Katzsbalger of bastard sword proportions here is a custom one made by A & A:
http://www.arms-n-armor.com/custom914.html As far as adding a Swiss sabre style hand guard I guess it would be possible. |
I think you have it the wrong way around now. I'm thinking about a Swiss saber with a katzbalger guard, not a katzbalger bastard sword with a Swiss saber guard.
As for the A&A sword, it's not bad, though visually I prefer the ones Lutel makes. Especially the 15015 model. *drool*
| Quote: |
| Now, if historical accuracy, in that one can prove that at least one of these is documented, is not an absolute essential thing for you, you could just decide to have one custom made a a semi-fantasy piece ?
If for your own satisfaction and not for a re-enactment or living history purpose one can indulge oneself with original design concepts. ;) |
Oh, I couldn't care less about historical accuracy. If anything, I mostly consider historical weapons to be merely good guidelines when creating modern swords. So, that's not concern at all.
This is more a matter of satisfying my curiosity, really. :)
| Anders Backlund wrote: |
|
Very interesting; I didn't know they were enemies. That would certainly explain the general lack of katzbalger sabers. ;) |
| Quote: |
| Lack of a proof of a presense in not a proof of an absense so I'd have to say that theoretically it is possible. One thing to remember is that the katzsbalger was a weapon of the Landsknaught whereas the Swiss saber would have been with the Swiss pikemen. The two groups detested each other and often would refuse to give quarter to the other. There might have been a little reluctance to use elements of the opposing force's weaponry. That said, the "Swiss" saber was also used in southern Germany, so I guess that anything is possible. |
| Werner Stiegler wrote: | ||
|
Now, that one I'd really like to see. :surprised:
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